Imma pin this one up for now.
Please remember the rule on celebrating death. Graham was an asshole, that should be enough.
In March 2016, Graham said: “I want you to use my words against me. If there’s a Republican president in 2016 and a vacancy occurs in the last year of the first term, you can say Lindsey Graham said let’s let the next president, whoever it might be, make that nomination.” [1, 2]
What, pray tell, is the “rule” about celebrating death? It couldn’t possibly be some absolute Reddit shit, could it?
Sidebar rule 6:
“No hate speech, slurs, celebrating death, advocating violence, or abusive language. This will result in a ban. Usernames containing racist, or inappropriate slurs will be banned without warning.”
Any good justification for this rule you can think of?
(Also… weird that you’re not actually enforcing it? Is it a “rule” or not?)
Basic humanity? Graham lacked it, doesn’t mean we should.
So if we celebrated hitler’s death we lack humanity? People should be free to celebrate a death if they feel to. Forcing your idea of a moral code over people is not nice. We are not talking about celebrating violence, a crime or wishing for somebody’s death.
People should be free to express their feelings if they don’t hurt anyone, without having to fear the morality police. The point of modorators should be to create a welcoming and safe space, not to impose your morality on others.
Doesn’t matter if you think it’s “nice” or not. It’s a rule for this community.
Yes, and you could have answered “thanks for your input, but we are going to stick with our rules because we have our reasons”, instead you basically tell me “Doesn’t matter what you think, these are the rules and you must respect them. No discussion allowed”. I mean sure, you make the rules, but the way you enforce them and react to criticism speaks for itself.
You should answer the question posed though…
No, no, you don’t get it. It’s not about being nice, it’s about telegraphing what a good, nonthreatening supplicant you are
I already said he was an asshole and cited the reason, that’s not supplication.
You don’t have to celebrate death to prove you aren’t a supplicant. 😉
I said almost the exact same thing.
Jesus fucking Christ. We’re really doing this high road virtue signaling bullshit here, too? Cool. Continue being part of the problem, I guess.
If you don’t like it, make your own community. It’s a stated rule here.
Is there a rule about talking about disliking it? I don’t see one in writing, but it seems like it wouldn’t matter.
Ahhhh, the “when they go low, we go high” approach.
Gee whizz, that approach has really been working out so far, hasn’t it…i mean i go everywhere high. it's worked pretty well for me.
i get i’m a bit of an outlier though
Obviously it needs to go higher so that the fall is harder
Not positive that you should be enforcing your own personal ethics onto other people. Free speech should be a thing. If a person did bad things and people are glad that he is no longer in a position to do bad things, that is a celebration in itself. Trying to enforce opinions like this is self-congratulatory in that you consider your opinion is superior and worthy of judicial enforcement.
Note that I haven’t in the slightest commented on the man himself, yet still run the risk of banning. It all depends upon the moderator. This happens on Reddit all the time and that’s the problem with this kind of moderation. It has a chilling effect. Give a censor a job and they tend to censor.
Freedom of speech is what the government controls. You have no freedom of speech within a private entity like social media.
The TOS sets the overall rules, each community further defines them.
The Lemmy instances which are “do as thou wilt shall be the whole of the law” get de-federated pretty damn quickly due to the raw sewage they pump out.
I do agree that censorship and freedom of speech are related to how a government deals with the matter, so you are right.
However, free speech principles have, thankfully, escaped the confines of government control. People generally like to express an opinion and hear others - particularly on private platforms that are supposedly set up for that express purpose. Sure, set of terms of service putting arbitrary guard rails on ethical grounds (one’s own) and see what that gets you in the long run.
Most of us already know the extremities of free speech. Saying ‘great’ when a douchebag stops being a douchebag is hardly ban worthy.
Or maybe it is, and if so, welcome to your weather channel.
Then what’s the point?
Freedom of speech is what the government controls. You have no freedom of speech within a private entity like social media.
Totally true. But the reality is people are going to go to whatever platform they feel most free to express themselves on.
That’s literally why everyone left Reddit for Lemmy. And they’ll leave Lemmy too.
Just making an observation.
free speech is also a personal ethic. now kiss
Lol welcome to lemmy politics.
True, I should probably quit social media altogether. Having opinions is never welcome unless they are authorised opinions.
Seriously. In so many ways this place is worse than reddit.
Would you celebrate the death of Hitler?
About eighty years too late, but at the time I feel like I would’ve.
That is a ratio.
Maybe the rules should be put to a vote by the community?
The community doesn’t set the rules, that way lies madness.
No. This high road bullshit is why we are in the hole we’re in now. You want to play the game, you need to understand the rules. And you naive to think anything else.
I won’t condone murder, but this fucker deserves his abrupt death and the vitriol that follows. We will always be at the mercy of those fucks because of people like you and it’s time you understand.
Ok agreed. No surprise night raping or murdering people in colonial genocide projects that Graham Cracker. I hope we’ll all live to celebrate that fucker dying some day too.
Now on the celebrations.
what about being sad that he died… this late?
Community rules are aggressively enforced against people the mods disagree with and fairly lax with those they agree. Jordan is usually pretty fair though. But yeah the celebrating death rule is applied very very inconsistently.
Mostly because we physically can’t read every comment and rely on reports.
Events like this are fairly unique.
So here’s the situation:
Last night? I didn’t see anything removable or bannable and went to sleep.
Waking up today, I had a butt-ton of replies to wade through, then reports, now I’m going through the whole comment tree looking for rule violations.
So far, as of your comment, it looks pretty clean! I’m impressed!
I know no one wants to hear this right now but celebrating death degrades us. To join the grim reaper’s cheering section is to sit with the ghouls.
If you want to convince me there’s some great practical value in it, go ahead and try, but I don’t see it. To me, it’s an act that accomplishes nothing except lowering us. And believe me, I fucking hated Lindsay Graham. I’m glad he will do no more harm, but that’s as far as I prefer to go.
This is so obnoxious.
No, obnoxious is the way y’all are piling your hatred for Lindsay Graham onto this poor mod because he won’t let you rip Graham’s body to pieces inside the community center. As if that would do anyone any good. Straight up fucking scapegoating going on right here. He’s handled you all quite well.
No one’s forcing him to police adult conversations for decorum in the middle of a cold civil war.
What a stupid rule
The issue is that what is presented as a single rule is actually several different rules crammed into one sentence. It strings together multiple distinct ideas with commas, making it unclear where one prohibition ends and another begins. If each of those ideas is meant to stand on its own, they should be written as separate rules rather than bundled together under a single heading.
Secondly, “celebrating death” is an extremely vague concept. Many cultures celebrate death in one form or another. Hindus, for example, have traditions that celebrate the passage into the next life. Creole culture also has a long history of turning funerals into communal celebrations.
Moreover, what exactly constitutes a celebration of death? If someone feels happy that a particular person has died, they are not necessarily celebrating death itself. They are simply acknowledging that someone they disliked is gone and, in their view, that the world is objectively better off as a result.
So if I say, “I am happy that so-and-so died,” that is not, in and of itself, a morally reprehensible statement. It merely expresses an individual’s emotions. No one is obligated to like another person or to feel sadness when they die. Death itself is not a moral act; the act of taking a life is. In this case, the individual died naturally rather than as the result of anyone’s actions.
As a result, I see no compelling reason why death itself should never be celebrated, whether the sentiment is meant to admonish the deceased or to honor them.
“or” makes it clear to anyone with an understanding of English that these are each separate items.
One of the great many problems with the"celebrating death" rule (whatever that means) is that much commentary is generated just talking about why it it pointless. The moderators must have already removed the most violent opinions because most of the ones remaining are along the lines of “good, I’m glad”. Pretty tame stuff, but apparently not permitted all the same.
If it is a rule, at least you have the good sense to realise that “celebration” is a pretty broad term and should be handled judicially.
Maybe amend the rule to “celebrating death of actual human beings”. There’s one person whose death will be celebrated far and wide, for sure.
We did lift the rule temporarily when it was Kissinger. 😉
You see why this doesn’t make it better, right?
No, he really doesn’t.
So you decide when it applies and when it doesn’t? Sounds like this community needs a new mod with some integrity
We made an exception for an incredible war criminal, yes. Don’t expect us to do it for everyone.
Just expect it for the people YOU don’t like? Policies made by these evil men can lead to death. If you make life harder for pregnant people, women, LGBTQ, etc., some of those people will commit suicide. Some of those people will die in child birth. Some of those people will see hate crimes committed against them. That doesn’t make them evil enough for you? Someone dying doesn’t erase the evil they have committed. Even those politicians that didn’t want to protect grandma during covid are pretty fucking despicable. They could have created policy that led to innocent elderly dying from a preventable condition. I would celebrate the death of all politicians that didnt do enough to protect public health. Jesus Christ, why do I need to explain this? They are literally public figures. They put themselves out there for us to judge.
He is, after all, a human being. A shit one at that, but still human.
i mean while i agree, i don’t want to get into the habit of dehumanizing people (even if it feels fair play for any given specific person).
It took a whole fucking lot of dehumanization to defeat the actual historical Nazis.
Maybe we’re thinking of similar things, but I thought it took killing, not dehumanization. I mean it’s easier to convince a bunch of someones to kill someone else if you first dehumanize the someone else to the someones so I get where you’re coming from tho
Agreed. The worst people in history were all still very much human. They had internal complexity that caused them to live the lives they lived and make the mistakes they did. And those humans were terrible people whose deaths deserve celebration, because they’re shining examples of which parts of humanity we should strive to avoid emulating.
lmfao wow this is some real reddit shit. mass downvoting the guy who answered the questionedit: oh wait it’s the same guy, it makes sense then. still, shouldn’t downvote the answer.
You can say what a terrible person he was without celebrating his death.
Just like the Charlie Kirk responses:
“I can’t stand the word empathy actually. I think empathy is a made-up, New Age term that — it does a lot of damage, but it is very effective when it comes to politics.”
And you can say it’s the 25th of December without celebrating Christmas, but the question is, why would I?
You need to justify why celebrating someone’s death should not be allowed.
I’m not advocating for anyone dying, that’s a different bowl of nuts. Virtue signalling one’s own ethical purity might get you off, but it only annoys everyone else.
Virtue signalling one’s own ethical purity might get you off, but it only annoys everyone else.
That’s Jordan for you. And then being smug about it too.
Because the place would become toxic af. It’s a good rule.
Then ban toxic posts. Don’t shoot everyone just because they don’t blow kisses at a monster.
Again, you can call him an asshole without celebrating his death.
I just watched a doco on the Nuremberg trials today in Netflix - by way of coincidence. These guys were the GOATs at instilling a sense of justice and fairness. That was their prime and only job. Guess what, they also celebrated the bad guys deaths. Especially the really bad guy, but also the henchmen like Goring (who topped himself).
I’ll not keep on arguing because we are both sick of the topic. I just don’t understand the sacred seperation between permitting calling someone an arsehole when they are breathing, but the moment they stop breathing you can’t say ‘fantastic’. Great news.
But as you say, them be the rules, I guess?
Maybe we see enough vitriol towards Windows and Mac users, people daring to praise anything that isn’t FOSS, or saying something nice about someone who isn’t a liberal, that even when we are relieved when a certain person is no longer living we don’t want to read dozens or hundreds of me-too posts full of vitriol. There’s the upvote button for that. I’m glad he’s gone but making a separate comment to essentially echo groupthink is (somewhat) a waste of time and effort. In some ways Lemmy is no better than Reddit.
I know that saying anything that goes against Lemmy groupthink and hatefeasts is guaranteed to get a down vote, but I don’t feel the need to make nasty comments so that I fit in around here.
He was a terrible person and it is fitting to celebrate that he is no longer alive to impose his views through policy. Not celebrating his death, just the act of him no longer living. Him dying, sad for his family. Him not being alive, good for the nation. It’s a bad rule, do better.
What a pain in the neck that guy was.
Define the difference between celebration vrs elation.
I’m not gonna throw a party but I won’t rule out a hearty chuckle a jaunty happy dance.
Having made an initial pass of the comments, there were really very few removable. Mostly blatant rule breaking like “Good!” and “I am celebrating!”
The rule states “bannable” but not how long. The minimum I can set is 1 day. I’d probably have gone for something in the hours range, but it is not that granular. 😉
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What is that socialist logo? An underhand wank of a gigantic glizzy?
DSA logo
I see, you’ll understand my confusion as your logo shows two cartoon hands whilst the OP shows… maybe a stump at best.
That’s just the style. Drawing hands is hard and polandballs are supposed to be simplistic and crudely drawn.
Also this meme is super old at this point, I think it was originally about McCain.
I guess it’s just my sick mind seeing things.
What a weird rule.
Hitler dies, and we’re not allowed to celebrate? Putin dies, we can’t talk about how great it is that the warmongering fascist is no longer haunting the rest of us with war?
C’mon.
We have to keep Lemmy advertiser-friendly!
There are ads?
No adds yet. Neither did Reddit once upon a time.
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No fun allowed
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It’s cool, you should have seen the crap we removed when Carter died. We aren’t playing sides here, that’s why it’s in the side bar.
You should just let us downvote them out of existence.
Far as I’m concerned the only thing that should be removed are slurs and outright misinformation, which includes anti-voter sentiment.
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Right? If Hitler rises from the grave and we curb stomp him back into it am I not supposed to celebrate?
Bad people exist. It’s good when they stop existing. We should be able to acknowledge that. This isn’t Reddit and I never want it to be.
EDIT: Put some more thought into it. I think it’s important to celebrate the death of objectively bad people because it helps normalize obliterating whatever virtuous image they constructed for themselves while they were alive. Unfortunately, the USA has normalized corruption, that’s not really debatable at this point. We need to normalize publicly shaming corrupt individuals to try to dissuade future bad actors from rising through the ranks and letting the world know exactly how low these corrupt assholes were. And as far as determining whether Graham was a piece of shit or not…well, I’d say if you constantly take advantage of things you actively vote against and flip flop on your statements from one day to the next, you’re a pretty big piece of shit.
Mainstream Respectable opinion is that people joking about a bad person’s death represents a culture of cruelty, but really it represents a culture of impunity. It’s a coping mechanism for watching someone do evil their whole life and never seeing consequences.
Yup.
We live in a society where the justice system simply doesn’t apply to the rich and powerful.
All we’ve got is the celebration when nature finally makes them pay the piper.
I’ll go to whatever platform I need to in order to have that.
This guy was a literal mass murderer akin to a modern day Nazi but keep pretending like there is some “civility”.
that’s a shitty rule tbh
I get it, it makes it easier to moderate. still a shitty rule.
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🎆🥳🎉🎊🎆
Unsubscribed.
Bye, Felicia
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I know you’re getting shit from everyone, but thanks for volunteering to mod and put up with all the “edgy” people here.
Civility fetish.
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Pretty brutal list of catastrophies you listed there. It’s a shame that your party decided it was more important to genocide Palestinians than it was to mitigate those issues.
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I think Jordan covered the rule existing and not to break it, but I’d like to discuss why it’s there to hopefully make this more transparent. Especially since Mitch may be croaking soon also (or already did, who knows?)
Rule 6 is a necessary evil. The reason is that websites which are truly off the rails are often singled out. A mostly leftist forum would be even more likely to be targeted. Community mods should on occasion think what would these posts look like on an FBI filing, or on a hit piece on the DSA for example. Not the same morally, but famously many nationalist/racist sites have been targeted and then had their hosting or ddos protection revoked because of content on the site calling for death or celebrating it with their rules and enforcements having no such limitations.
Different levels of extremes than here obviously, but the corporate landscape and justice dept is not on our side here and so interpretations which seem obvious to you may not be made before damage has been done.
Above all, mods have a responsibility to not create problems for the site that hosts their coms, regardless of deserved or undeserved protection on someone’s legacy.
Besides, it’s just as easy to say, “Warmonger Graham: Never an offensive war he didn’t support, never a dollar from Israel he didn’t immediately allow into his decision making process, never a brown person he didn’t want to kill. He has obtained what he wanted most for others, death. He can now start his final battle without his mortal coil, to start a regime change in hell.”
Geez… they’ll really do anything to distract from Mitch being dead
That and the Epstein files
I’m sorry to hear it was brief.
Wow! Mitch Mcconnell and Lindsey Graham in the same year? The world is indeed slowly starting to heal! Now do Fat Donnie and Erdogone, and I’ll throw a party.
McConnell ain’t dead yet (unfortunately). Or did I miss something?
There’s zero proof he is alive.
There’s lots of evidence he is dead.
People are just being realistic
I heard that Lindsey Graham is having a 20 minute long conversation with him right now.
There’s also a strong incentive for the current administration to not announce his death.
They’ve probably thrown his body off the end of a pier in the middle of the night by now.
He may be doing guard duty over the Epstein Files right now
He’s completely absent from everything and if they announce he’s dead now they have to have a special election to replace him.
If they wait until 8/3, then the seat just stays empty and whoever gets elected in November gets seated in January:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2026_United_States_Senate_election_in_Kentucky
Erdogan instead of Netenyahu huh.
Wow! Not the one I thought it would be
He was encouraged to call Mitch and decided to drop in on him.
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lindsay “Lady G” graham died having never been married and never having children. He ran for president once, when asked by press who his first lady would be, should he win, he replied, “My Sister…”.
It is not an inherently wrong or shameful thing to be gay, by any means, but to live an entire lifetime poorly hiding your own truth while being dedicated to hating what you are publicly, in a position to vocally support and enact actual law aimed at making other humans fear, suffer and feel less for just loving who they love is unforgivable.
His voting record who stand as a permanent indictment of a cruel person who led a short, hateful and frightened life - never taking a single free breath. A sad life, over.
The level of self hatred people like that have is just stunning. Almost dissociative. I’d love to see a psychological analysis.
Self hatred?
Self preservation. The worm that sides with the bullies in order to protect itself and be close to power.
How awful. It’s a heartbreaking turn of events, sucks to hear that he didn’t publicly suffer through a long, protracted illness first.
He had a 20 minute conversation with Mitch McConnell who told him to go into the light.
“Join me Lindsay. It’s nice and warm down here and all of our favorite people are with us.”
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I had always kinda hoped he’d live long enough to see his prediction of Trump destroying the Republican party fully play out. Can’t say I’m upset by the news despite that.
