Summary
Trump and Zelenskyy’s confrontational Oval Office meeting advanced “mob boss foreign policy” serving Russian interests.
Trump and Vance bullied Zelenskyy when he refused their “extortionate” minerals deal or to thank them despite Trump’s stated intent to reduce support for Ukraine.
Zelenskyy effectively countered their claims by noting Russia’s 2014 invasion and correcting historical inaccuracies, which angered the Americans.
This represents the first openly “anti-US, anti-Western, anti-democracy foreign policy in American history.” Russians embraced it, and Putin ally and former Russian president Dmitry Medvedev celebrated the exchange.
America humiliated itself by voting this orange twat back in
We tried not to, I promise you. Our voting system is …problematical, at best
So is social media, and the openness of free societies to internal (the rich owning the media) and external (foreign adversaries) tampering. Spreading misinformation, eroding trust in institutions and truth itself, poisons like that.
Many democracies are crumbling this way. We yet have to find an effective antidote.
Regardless of the voting system, there still is a worryingly large portion of voters who were corrupted to serve other’s interests. And that is true to all (?) countries. That not just any two democracies fall first, but GB and US, kind of shows us that it could be anyone.
So while it is easy to look down on the fallen, or feel ashamed to be that - we’re helpless in this together. Hate to end like that.
The idea that Zelensky should owe the US anything is darkly hilarious. The US has been using this war to further its own geopolitical aims, without regard for Ukrainian lives. “Pay us back for the privilege of being a sacrificial pawn of US foreign policy”. Gross.
100% knew this shit would happen. Knew he was going to take this all as some massive win. His cronies probably all patted him on the back and gladly licked his nuts.
half the voting population thinks trump did humiliate zelensky
He did something much worst then humiliating x or y. Everyone already knew he is a clown, but he pretty much blown any credibility USA still had as a partner for anything, see also tariffs and threatening 2 allies (Canada and Greenland)
This is Don Corleone beheivior, I give you 100 billions in old military equipment and you give me 500 back, really?
Also, USA offered security guarantees on '90s when Ukraine gave back the nukes to Russia. Officials didn’t forget that, maybe Trump did.
Trump would say that the deal was done under incompetent old management and it is not valid under him. As if the government is now his and not the old.
Ok, then his validation as president was done by the same incompetent old management and it’s not valid.
He can say what he wants. International treaties are international treaties. If you break them you loose your credibility, if you still have any after threating to invade your allies.
The U.S. citizens bought the ticket now it’s time to take the ride.
He doesn’t think it, Krasnov simply knows he has to keep repeating that talking point to get people that haven’t seen the “discussion” to side with him. Why this talking point instead of another? Using the same criticism against the other side turns it into a matter of whose word those people value more to begin with. It’s him relying on his popularity. Those that don’t value Krasnov more (that also haven’t seen it) could potentially be swayed to at least think both sides were in the wrong.
at this point, the rest of the world should start phasing out and blocking anything American. can’t rely on the looney bin for critical infrastructure.
Føtex in Denmark is to start marking American products, so now it’s easier to know if you’re buying something American or something European.
I think Canada is also going to make a few trade deals with us.
People have lost their minds over a disagreement. It’s really not a big deal. Here is the real problem, Zelensky openly states his expectations during that meeting in the oval office that Russia will 1. Leave all Ukrainian land, including Crimea. 2. Pay to rebuild Ukraine. This will never happen, ever. Ukraine is free to continue the war as long as they wish and America is free Not to continue to pay for their weapons and the functioning of their government.
It is not the disagreement per se that people are losing their minds over (though that is another topic). It is the way he and his vice president shouted at another president’s face just because he thinks acting tough and macho will appease his supporters. This is just disgraceful and pathetic. No one with a grain’s worth of sense would want a college bully as the president of the US.
Acting tough is not what his supporters want. No longer funding endless wars is. It’s really not that hard.
Haha sorry that makes no sense. What does shouting at and humiliating a president in front of cameras achieve that just stating the US won’t be a side anymore does not? It was clearly for show.
And I like your emphasis on endless wars. Stoking up endless wars and enabling the slaughter of children and civilians is apparently fine as long as you are turning a profit since %100 of republicans (and %90 of democrats for that matter) said no to Bernie Sander’s stop arms sale to Israel resolution.
It is true that Israel holds some power over both parties and they fall over themselves to grovel at their feet. That I cannot explain.
Yes, America is free to let Putin invade a sovereign country.
Of course this makes them chickenshit appeasers. Unreliable Russian bootlickers who are willing to abandon their commitments under the Budapest Memorandum. But they are free to do this.
Just don’t give me any of this “land of the free, home of the brave” bullshit. They’ve proven who they are, and they are not that. They’re fucking greedy imperialist cowards, friends of dictators and authoritarians. I hope they do us all a favour and just hurry their descent into irrelevance.
Once they’ve completed their internal collapse, and the pieces have been picked apart, a new Alaric will ride in and close the deal. Lasted less than 300 years. Pretty pathetic by comparison. But I guess the bigger they are, the harder they fall.
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America has never been the world’s police, except if you think the police are there to enforce power from the dominant socio economic group. In which case yes.
They didn’t help people. Remember those wmds that didn’t exist and were never found?
They’ve only ever been a force for their own power and enrichment
Yes all true. Only one side is trying to make it stop.
How did you get that over our Cheeto and his couch fucker vp yelling over him, knowing English is a second language to him, just yelling and talking over him, straight bullying him like he stole something. Our “leaders” are pathetic children. Can’t even stay on topic, went to the laptop, Hilary, holy fuck, these are our “negotiators” that have inserted themselves to help? America is cooked, were a fucking embarrassment. I’m ashamed to call myself American. JD making sure he gets a little camera action since president musk will be back and he’ll be the third wheel. Fuck me we suck so bad.
Most embarrassed I’ve been to call myself an american. And I’m a veteran.
Absolutely disgusting.
I’m so angry and embarrassed. What a total shit show.
Since 2015 ish I started unfollowing both left and right side friends because of political talk from people on my friends list on Facebook. I really have pruned it to be only people that post stuff they’re doing. Same for people that only forward stuff. (News or whatever).
I broke down and posted about yesterday on my feed with a link to a YouTube video of the press conference. Expressing how utterly disgusted I was.
It’s a minor thing but it should make it very clear how I feel and the line we crossed with that display.
Seems like you did an unnecessary pruning then. You just weren’t angry yet.
No I was angry but wanted a clean online space that I was kinda stuck on due to remote family…
Edit: I am more angry now so you’re not technically wrong <sigh>
I have followed a lot. I’m passionate too. However, this. This was just too much. It’s upsetting and disgusting and embarrassing for us. I really wish Obama and Biden and Clinton and everyone would be more fucking vocal. They do it for silent respect? There is nothing respectful about anything Trump has done. We need real leaders.
I was pretty embarrassed when he was elected the first time, then really embarrassed when he was elected the second time too, but yeah, this is a new low.
Embarrassed? I went into a deep depression and could barely get out of bed, the second time.
Sorry to hear, that’s terrible and understandable. The country is definitely in a bad place right now and hopefully the safeguards that haven’t already been dismantled will hold and he can’t do too much damage.
I kind of did too. But then I realized there’s still a chance to turn things around so I started getting involved with local activist chapters. Do what you can and try to get your family involved. It all helps.
I voted by mail went to Hawaii hoping to tune it out. All it did was depress the fuck out of me during my vacation. I put on a fake smile and tried to enjoy myself, but the 2nd half of that trip sucked.
Yea, me too. That was a sense of doom on another level.
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You should look up war criminal, because I don’t believe you know what it means
Don’t feed the trolls :)
Too edgy 4me man.
That sentence is written in a way where they could have easily meant “I should be far more embarrassed for being a veteran but this is taking the cake”.
And most people who serve in the US military are pushed into because they can’t afford life otherwise. I’m sure many are pretty shit, but most are honestly kinda just your average person. As an institution it’s not got the best track record but it’s not the IDF gleefully and openly murdering children.
Now please stop making me have to defend the US military of all things, it feels icky.
I really don’t care for that excuse.
"I really don’t want to but I’m a poor black kid and no chance of education otherwise. " If you CHOOSE to better yourself at the expense of others, and think your solution is joining an organisation that is in the business of murdering and looting then they can go to hell.
They most certainly murder children and are also guilty in helping the IDF do it. Not just supplying weapons.They can choose to get a gun and rob banks or rich assholes.
That would be way more honorable and fair than cowardly bombing brown people from a distance for some money.Except most of them are fully brainwashed. Recruiters literally go into their schools and start when they’re young, and they leave out all the important details. These days it’s pretty obvious, and there’s a reason that they’re struggling to get numbers like they used to, but if someone is already a veteran then they joined up many years ago.
Telling someone to go rob a bank is just insane. I get the sentiment, I really do, but c’mon man have at least a little empathy. I’m not asking for anything more than maybe chilling on the default “war criminal” stuff. I’m even happy to agree that the institution is shady as fuck and full of issues. There’s nuance here, and nuance is not an synonym for “excuse”, it just means that it’s more than 0 or 100.
I will copy/paste my response and add that I also have a hangover:
This is a subject that pisses me off every time. No organisation in the world is more harmful and it causes enourmous misery for millions. When someone defends those, make’s excuses for them or bring up someone’s a veteran implying they deserve respect, have done some service for the country or even heroes I get indeed very confrontational. You’re 100% right that it doesn’t help to convince people. I usually try a more tranquil approach on other subjects. Even then the reaction is almost invariably insults and accusations. At least it will be an eye opener for some that believed everyone is like them and they are universally loved. But thanks for your sensible advice.
I forgot to mention it doesn’t really matter what I say since much less controversial comments of mine sget removed systematically and rapidly when they go against the narrative.
I never said they deserved respect, I mean calling someone a war criminal while they actively criticize GOP foreign policy is fucking wild. You started this all on your own.
The most embarrassing moment in American history. Regurgitating Russian propaganda to the ally currently under attack from Russia. It’s almost unbelievable that this actually occurred…
I don’t think Ukraine is an ally anymore. I don’t think much of Europe is our ally at this point
I’m certainly not an ally, and I live here.
I mean, same. I hate that I’m an American rn.
most embarrassing moment in American history
so far.
Its wild how much damage is being done in such a short time and how powerless everyone is to do anything.
Almost. But some of us could tell he was a Manchurian Candidate
More embarrassing than Holocaust denial and the slaughter of indigenous people?
There’s lots of embarrassing things. There’s lots of really bad embarrassing things.
I hear the French had a most fabulous invention that could help with these sorts of problems.
The Etch-A-Sketch?
But not quite as embarrassing as your comment history.
Dunning Kruger indeed
That was their goal. Humiliate Ukraine like he tried to humiliate Canada and Mexico. He’s a bully and conman and lying, cheating, and breaking deals is how he has gotten through life and it’s all he knows. He thinks that by humiliating and making other leaders feel small and helpless he can make himself look big and strong and get a better deal.
He hasn’t figured out yet that dealing with sovereign countries with millions of citizens whose politicians need to answer to them, not Trump, is different that cheating a small paint store or a small architecture firm.
He’s bankrupted everything he’s tried to, the-art-of-the-deal and he’s going to bankrupt America.
If the world works together it can bring the United States to heel.
He tries to run diplomatic relations like he would be dealing with NYC mobsters. That man is entirely unsuited for office. The US population which elected him has shown to be unsuited for the leadership role they claim their country has. That’s the reality the rest of the world is facing. The US is a troubled state and an unreliable ally. Moreover, they are acting in the interests of adversarial nations to world peace and prosperity. Other nations who did that have been deemed rogue or terrorist states.
Humiliate Ukraine like he tried to humiliate Canada and Mexico.
Trump’s tariffs are about to come into effect against Canadian goods in a couple days. I fully expect to see another meltdown from Trump. I really hope Trudeau records the entire meeting/phone call and makes it public so the whole world can witness it.
At the time Trump built Trump Tower, Jackie Kennedy was the most famous and beloved person in New York City. Undisputed Queen of high society. Her pet project was preservation of great New York architecture. Everyone knew about her efforts to save Grand Central Station.
The building Trump razed to put up the Tower was considered one of the most beautiful on 5th Avenue. Everyone told Trump that he could preserve the façade of the building and still have a massive skyscraper on top.
So, Trump ignored everyone and demolished the building after promising to preserve parts of it.
That’s the kind of idiot he has always been.
Now I want to learn about that building.
https://drivingfordeco.com/stewart-and-company/
There’s actually a picture of Jackie O and John Jr. shopping in the store.
That was the most beautiful building? I hate Trump but it’s so plain. I was expecting something actually cool looking.
Ah yes so much better.
No one said Trump Tower is better, only that the original building should, by basically any metric, be considered “among the most beautiful in New York”.
✨ Reading comprehension ✨
Did you look through the second link? Or just open one grainy b&w photo and make a snap judgement?
✨ Don’t give me your soupy sass✨
Yea dude, it’s got a fancy entryway visible even in the first photo that I suppose I should have mentioned, and a lot of interior stuff that is specifically not part of the façade, which is what people had asked him to keep on the lower floors.
I’d say try harder but you might hurt yourself.
Never said Trump Tower was better I just said that other building wasn’t beautiful.
Go on bro which building do you think has amazing architecture and historical significance? Or in your words is cool looking for all the hater’s below.
I live near Detroit, The Guardian Building especially the interior. I did a move job there for Wayne County. Beautiful building. One Detroit Center and The Fisher Theater too. The Renaissance Center can get pushed into the river though.
Guardian building is like an Aztec mosque and is pretty cool.
Real “Oh you like buildings? Name all of them.” energy
Wow, they replaced boring with tacky. Yea it was a downgrade but c’mon, that thing’s a plain block of concrete with a couple of carvings so high up that no one can even really see them. I was expecting it too at least look like the Flat Iron building or something(which isn’t wild, but at least it has texture).
Yeah where are the neon golden arches and it doesn’t even have any gas pumps or self checkout lanes…🙄
I even gave you an example of where my preference was leaning and sure as shit wasn’t that. You’re either too stupid to communicate properly or one of those broken people who think trolling is fun and frankly I don’t have time for either.
Shiiiiiittt I missed that you was from the South. I thought you were ordering from the cookout getting that two entree meal with that cheerwine.
He took away anyone’s right to ever suggest a woman would be too emotional to be president lmao.
You expect Republicans to be consistent? They live for hypocrisy.
Yeah exactly. I wonder how Trump would’ve responded if anyone in the room asked him if he would have used diplomacy had he been president during Pearl Harbour or 9/11. I’d have loved to see him squirm his way out of that one after he stated that Zelensky needs to be open for concessions in exchange for peace.
“If I’d been president they wouldn’t have dared to attack us!”
Karens yelling at cashiers in the checkout line also think they’re humiliating their victims.
