cross-posted from: https://lemmy.world/post/26184252
The former head of Kazakhstan’s intelligence service, Alnur Mussayev, recently claimed in a Facebook post that Donald Trump was recruited by the KGB in 1987, when the 40-year-old real-estate mogul first visited Moscow.
The allegation would, if true, be a bombshell. Mussayev provides no documentary evidence —but then how could he? He alleged that Trump’s file is in Vladimir Putin’s hands.
Mussayev isn’t the only ex-KGB officer to have made such an assertion. Several years ago, Yuri Shvets, a former KGB major now resident in Washington, D.C., served as one of the key sources for Craig Unger’s best-selling book, “American Kompromat: How the KGB Cultivated Donald Trump, and Related Tales of Sex, Greed, Power, and Treachery.”
Just after Mussayev made his claim, another ex-KGB officer living in France, Sergei Zhyrnov, categorically endorsed the allegations in an interview with a Ukrainian journalist. According to Zhyrnov, Trump would have been surrounded 24/7 by KGB operatives, including everyone from his cab driver to the maid servicing his hotel room. Zhyrnov said that Trump’s every move would have been recorded and documented, and that he could have been either caught in a “honey trap” (“All foreign-currency prostitutes were KGB — one hundred percent,” he said) or perhaps recorded bribing Moscow city officials in order to promote his idea of building a hotel in the Soviet capital.
None of these former KGB operatives has provided evidence, but the fact that three KGB agents located in different places and speaking at different times agree on the story suggests this possibility should not be dismissed out of hand. If there’s one thing we’ve learned from the first Trump administration and from the initial weeks of the second, it is that everything, including what appears to be impossible, is possible.
Also lending credence to the allegations is the fact that kompromat on Trump would easily, simply and convincingly explain the president’s animus toward NATO, Europe and Ukraine, his admiration of Vladimir Putin and his endorsement of authoritarian rule. One could even invoke “Occam’s razor,” the philosophical principle that claims that simple explanations should be preferred to complex ones.
We could then dispense with contorted explanations that focus on Trump’s mercurial and narcissistic personality on the one hand and American party realignments on the other. Indeed, even if true, these explanations could be accommodated as bells and whistles adorning the central narrative propounded by three KGB agents.
Naturally, Trump and his supporters will bristle. Surely, the three KGB agents are on somebody’s payroll. Who wouldn’t want to discredit the U.S. president? It could be the CIA or FBI, except that these are now firmly in the hands of Trump loyalists. Besides, would they have the ability to buy or coerce residents of Kazakhstan and France? Ditto for other Western intelligence services.
Perhaps it’s Putin? But he surely has no interest in undermining a president who supports his policies toward Ukraine, NATO and Europe.
Somewhat more plausible would be an officer or officers within the Russian intelligence community who oppose Putin and Trump’s designs. This version seems unlikely, but only at first glance, since we know that Putin’s seemingly impregnable regime is actually riven with cracks.
But why would a clandestine opposition make up a story and convince Shvets to spill the beans several years ago? Wouldn’t the dissidents know it’s true?
Perhaps all three ex-KGB agents are simply lying, in the hope of attracting attention and bolstering their fame? A resident of Washington might have this motive, but a Kazakh and Frenchman?
What leads me to think that there might be something to the allegations is the fact that an acquaintance had a very similar experience at just the same time. A left-leaning ladies’ man, he was wined and dined in Moscow for several years in the late 1980s, courted by the ladies — by his round-the-clock interpreter, as well as by a woman who approached him in a department store and invited him home.
We’ll probably never know the truth. But even with no slam-dunk evidence, the allegations should be, to say the least, disturbing, especially for the genuine patriots in the MAGA camp.
Its pretty important but we’ve been here before. eg piss tapes, eg tax returns, eg Maddow edged libs enough more than bella delphine.
It doesn’t fucking matter if he is or isn’t or was or wasn’t.
What matters is that he does everything as if he is working at the behest of Russia. It doesn’t really matter why. It matters that its consistent. He consistently does somethings. Always breaking in favor of Putin is one of them.
I don’t know if Trump is a Russian asset, but he’s doing all the things a Russian asset would do.
If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck…
He may not be a prostitute, but he is wearing the uniform.
Agreed. Out of all of Trump’s lies, Russia is one thing he remains consistent on.
Putin is the only man he’ll never throw under the bus no matter how much political backlash it causes him
None of these former KGB operatives has provided evidence, but the fact that three KGB agents located in different places and speaking at different times agree on the story suggests this possibility should not be dismissed out of hand. If there’s one thing we’ve learned from the first Trump administration and from the initial weeks of the second, it is that everything, including what appears to be impossible, is possible.
Back in the 1980s Trump was a rich, obvious narcissist who loved being the center of attention, took pride in his sexual conquests, liked younger girls (and bragged about it) and eastern European women, and was easily flattered and manipulated. In the late 1980s he overreached financially and got himself in trouble, so he would have had big debts. He had dodgy connections in NY and NJ and was prominent in American business circles. He had political ambitions and connections and was famous and influential. And he was visiting Moscow and trying to get some business going over there (why?), so he was ready to take Russian money to fund his ventures.
Is there anything about that that wouldn’t absolutely scream “recruit this guy” to the KGB? The journalist talks as if this is a bit of an out-there suggestion, but it would actually be very surprising if they hadn’t at least attempted to recruit him. And the KGB wouldn’t do that by asking nicely: they’d find a way to gradually hook you in so you couldn’t say no. There was no shortage of ways to do this with Trump. So they probably at least tried.
And then do we think Trump would have been the kind of guy to make a principled stand, or to be smart enough to recognize what’s happening and not take the bait? He’s exactly the kind of guy who goes with whoever offers him the sweetest deal in the short term. You make him feel like he’s winning, he’s smart and great at business, all the while documenting his every compromising move, and only later does he realize that he’s trapped. But then you say, go back to the USA and continue your life as before. We’ll help you in business and politics, you can have a successful life, everything will be good, and we’ll let you know when you can help us.
So I disagree with the author that this is in any way an implausible suggestion. It seems far more implausible that the KGB would have decided not to try to recruit Trump, or that they would have failed in their attempt. The most likely thing is that Trump was recruited by the KGB, and we know that after the collapse of the USSR he took a lot of money from wealthy Russians, and sold real estate in deals that look a lot like money laundering, to Russians. How plausible is it that none of this was ex-KGB Putin or his allies ensuring that Trump stayed hooked in case he came in useful?
And then we know the Russians helped him in 2016 and everything Trump has done while President has been conspicuously well aligned with Putin’s interests. Is it more likely this is all one big coincidence, or that he is indebted to Russia in a way that gives them a lot of leverage? And what could be better leverage than being able to reveal that they had him all along?
It’s not certain, but I disagree with the author that it even initially looks unlikely or implausible. I’d even say it’s probable that Russia has been playing him for decades.
They’re just playing devils advocate, giving voice to any would-be conservative readers thoughts on the matter, so that they can dispel them. Based on all available evidence, the orange rapist has been putins fleshlight for decades. There is simply no other explanation.
It was an open secret in New York City. Don Jr. openly boasted that daddy was in bed with the Russian banks.
surprise to no-one but conservatives, hes well known to have worked with them since the 80s, and the casinos was thier main way of laundering money.
The part that doesn’t make sense to me is that Trump is transactional and turns his back on people once he gets what he wants. So why does he care about Russia anymore? They got him the presidency with their misinformation already.
For a long time the Italian mob was in control of the construction industry in NYC. They started getting prosecuted/whacked which weakened their position. The Russian mob wanted in on it, and would probably give Trump favorable construction deals if he helped them out. The late 80s in the USSR were really bad, so the KGB would probably have organized crime contacts.
Once the USSR collapsed those guys basically took over the country, and are the oligarchs that prop Putin up. Having a wealthy, famous “business man” in NYC to help them make money would be great. And Trump would be able to undercut people on cost thanks to favorable construction contracts.
Which sucks because as bad as the Italian mafia was they at least hated fascists. The US government even got them to provide security at US ports during WWII.
Russians will expose Trump or kill him or someone in his family if he doesn’t tow the line.
I think sees himself as invincible (hence his reactions after the assassination attempts), and honestly… I really don’t think he gives much of a fuck about his kids (though he’d like to give some to one of them).
Search and understand what kompromat is - trump is credibly accused of raping children. Not unreasonable to believe that they have the clearest evidence of something like that, the one thing that might actually bring him down.
They probably have truly damning evidence of something. Like video of him with a child prostitute, or evidence of him being involved in a murder.
Because he still owes them tons of money, he’s selling them classified info, and he’s been laundering theor money for decades? Putin has his balls firmly and ain’t letting go
I remember during the 2016 election Trump would say things that has only ever been on RT. I would see one or two articles about it being odd that his talking point were word for word from RT, at times, but it never broke though to mainstream news and no one pushed the journalism further.
If he was the FBI would have stepped in. Trump is simply very incompetent.
So the moral of the story is we don’t trust anything Russia says or does unless it contributes to the echo chamber noise?
I don’t know what’s going to happen once this generation of politicians dies off and there’s no plausible way to accuse anyone of having ties to the USSR. Will people keep saying it anyway even when it makes even less sense, or will they just switch over to China? Obviously we have to keep accusing right-wingers of somehow having ties to communists, no matter how convoluted or nonsensical it may be, because how else are libs supposed to demonstrate that they’re “one of the good ones?”
We’ll probably never know the truth. But even with no slam-dunk evidence, the allegations should be, to say the least, disturbing, especially for the genuine patriots in the MAGA camp.
Hey, here’s an idea, maybe it won’t, and shouldn’t be disturbing to them if it’s just allegations with no hard evidence? Maybe people should be disturbed by things that are based on, you know, actual facts?
Goddamn I’ve read some pretty stupid stuff, but this takes the cake.
Yeah, imagine basing your beliefs on evidence.
“Their last command was the most important, to not believe the evidence of your own eyes and ears.”
Yeah, like my eyes and ears show me an American billionaire doing American billionaire things but people want me to ignore that and blame the USSR through some bullshit speculation bordering on a conspiracy theory with absolutely nothing to show my eyes in ears, in order to reaffirm loyalty to the state and to capitalism. Seems pretty relevant to this situation indeed.
remember when drumpf was impeached because he was withholding aid to Ukraine because he wanted Zelensky to find dirt on Biden?
hey, hey, hey. Listen to me. You’re a fucking moron.
I have no idea how that’s inconsistent with an American billionaire doing American billionaire things.
