Isn’t Netanyahu wanted for genocide?
Well, it’s complex
Is is maintain the status quo which is Israelis exterminating Palestinians
Listen, this genocide has a lot of nuances and moving parts and history, which means maybe it’s not a situation where you can just stick your neck in and say “Killing children is wrong”.
I mean, consider a corollary - the British extermination of the Irish. Yeah, it looked bad at the time. But a bunch of Irish people survived. And as a consequence, we have to put up with Ed Sheeran.
I clicked that link and his stupid mug made me reflexively want to down vote you.
He’s ginger
Yeah, it’s a trait that shows up regularly in Celtic folks (and Jewish folks), but also appears all over Europe in smaller frequencies and to a lesser frequency across the old world.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_hair
But yeah he appears to be of Irish descent.
Israel existing, and being protected from neighbors is, to my mind, a “complex political issue.”
Israel performing genocide on Palestinians and annexing their homes is not.
One side is far more powerful and commiting genocide, the other is poor and simply trying to survive. Currently it is not complex at all.
My initial position after those first attacks from Hamas were Isreal has the right to defend itself, but what has happened since then is so far beyond the scope of what is acceptable, it is horrible.
There’s a deeper level to it. Israel, especially netanyahu over his long career, created the entire situation. And they did it directly and intentionally
Palestine used to be governed by the PLA. Hamas are hardliners - their founding goal was to turn the region against Israel and drive out the Israeli people. Hardliners are the least effective form of any movement
Israel held elections for Palestinians, giving them an official group to negotiate with, as well as some legal recognition that allows them to collect funds
As soon as Hamas won a single election, they stopped holding elections and the PLA leaders were assassinated soon after
Not to mention the on again off again attacks… Israel would build them infrastructure like hospitals and desalinization plants, then blow them up
There’s a lot to say on the topic, so I’ll end it with a fact that really puts things in contrast…
Before October 11, the average age in Gaza was under 18, and it isn’t like their population numbers were booming
Lust for power and wanting to be godlike is pretty surface level. Nothing too deep there. Same-old, same-old throughout history.
There’s a lot more to it than that… It’s a complicated situation primarily motivated by a lust for power and profit, but there’s layers and layers to it. There’s many involved interests and much to learn about how and why horrible things are happening
It’s easy to point to a war criminal and just label them as evil, but then you learn nothing useful
No one is evil in their own story, and by understanding the motivations and methods of great acts of evil you can understand where to apply pressure to stop it, as well as recognizing these same patterns elsewhere before it ends in another example of the worst crime against humanity
Isreal has the right to defend itself
Israel has been on the offense for 80 years, read a damn history book. PRETENDING that this began on Oct.7 is intellectual dishonesty and evidence that you regurgitate talking points sans critical thought.
Removed by mod
How many times can Israeli soldiers murder Palestinian children for the crime of “rock-throwing” before you decide enough is enough?
Just pick a number. Any number.
What culture sends it children into harm’s way to antagonize armed soldiers? Answer: Palestinians.
Not old enough to shave a beard but old enough to wear a suicide vest… again… Palestinians…
Israel rape Palestinians children
Israelis
Dude you should lose custody of your children for saying shit like this.
I hope you are one day oppressed by the same shit you support for others.
Dude you should lose custody of your children for saying shit like this.
I’m sorry? Him calling out how children are abused in wars (this isn’t exclusive to Hamas and has been documented around the world, especially African conflicts) means you should lose custody of children? What the fuck is wrong with you?
Hmm… that’s all ya got?
The fun thing is, I get to walk away and be me and you have to settle for being you.
Even Germans who weren’t Nazis and may not have even voted for Hitler.
All the other dogshit that others are well enough covering aside, just a nitpick: Hitler ran for president and lost in 1932. Hindenburg won. Hindenburg then appointed Hitler as Chancellor, signed over most powers to him, dissolved the Reichstag a couple times, and died.
Even if he ran and lost repeatedly in elections, people still voted for Hitler. That is a matter of historical record. In the middle of his career he was as mainstream a politician in his adopted country, as they came. Doing all the same work the rest of them did. Making speeches, strategizing, running the party… Selling out the working class to the moneyed elites of the time. .
Oh please. Acting like Israel hasn’t been killing Palestinians for decades. Imagine how Palestine could look now if Israel hadn’t been subjugating and oppressing them for the last 60+ years.
Both sides have been killing each other for decades. Palestinians killing Israelis, Israelis killing Palestinians. Neither side has clean hands in any of this.
Yes, Israeli soldiers murder children, and then get attacked, and then go murder more children.
Never do the pussies bother to fight anyone in a uniform or anyone armed.
It’s always, “Oops, I had to blow up a children’s hospital again.” Fucking despicable.
Yea in a ratio of about 10 Palestinians per 1 Israeli. Neither side has clean hands. But one side sure is hell bent on completely genociding the other. This both sides shit you’re spewing is disgusting. Recognize that a genocide is taking place and is killing tens of thousands of innocents.
But one side sure is hell bent on completely genociding the other.
Both sides are, but one side has been doing a better job of it for the last 80 years than the other side.
I don’t agree it is a genocide, but I do think either side would be quite glad to see every belligerent member of the other side dead.
There are pro-Palestinian Jews in Israel just as there are Pro-Israeli Arabs in Gaza and the West Bank, though they are few.
.
Nat turner committed atrocities? Is Nat turner as bad as the slave owners?
You will be “disciplined” for this point of view on Lemmy. Many here don’t even realize that all fundamentalist parties involved are dedicated to the total obliteration of the other. They don’t understand that this is international, not Israeli vs. Palestinian, but more Jews vs. Islam (which is in itself a gross simplification).
Others want all of these millions of Israelis to “disappear”, as if they have somewhere to go. Others want… more.
They don’t understand that this is international, not Israeli vs. Palestinian, but more Jews vs. Islam (which is in itself a gross simplification).
It didn’t end with WW2 and the fall of the Nazis…
You will be “disciplined” for this point of view on Lemmy.
I know. I don’t care. So far it’s all been a bunch of angry foaming-at-the-mouth emotionalism and name calling in the replies. I have my own views. Others have theirs.
.
Many here don’t even realize that all fundamentalist parties involved are dedicated to the total obliteration of the other.
Yes, most of the time, I can’t tell if they are ignorant or just stupid.
Perhaps both, at the same time.
This is wrong on many levels. Comparing a nation that went to war and the unfortunate reality of civilians getting caught in the crosshairs to civilians being massacred over a terrorist act is nonsensical.
Comparing a nation that went to war
Both situations look the same to me. YMMV. .
Blaming civilians not involved in a war for a terrorist act is not the same. Furthermore, Netanyahu funded the said terrorist group. Perhaps you should get your vision checked?
I don’t blame civilians, I merely observe that they will also partake of collective punishments brought on by the bad decisions of their political leaders. It is always so, in war. And they elected those leaders, let us not forget…
.
I appreciate you do not blame the civilians.
I will repeat it was never a war.
Collective punishment isn’t a thing in modern warfare and is definitely a crime against humanity.
This is an example of a corrupt politician getting a shit ton of civilians killed to stay out of prison. Not something you get to respond with an ongoing civilian massacre to.
Actually they do blame the civilians.
I appreciate you do not blame the civilians.
I don’t think that ordinary right-thinking individuals would want this situation in its current form.
Unfortunately those are rarely the ones who are making the large scale decisions.
Particularly in recent times.
.
Israeli voted for genocidal leaders. Aren’t you justifying october7 attrocities with your logic?
I don’t agree that Israe’s leaders are genocidal, so that makes the remainder of what you said completely moot in my mind.
It’s no less complicated than the US using 9/11 as an excuse to intensify it’s militaristic nature into a 25 year reign of terror in the middle east.
Sounds pretty simple to me
Yes, any Middle East issue is complex and unrest has been ongoing for centuries, but at least mass displacement, killing children and other innocent people, destruction and blockading of humanitarian resources, and incursion into sovreign territory should be condemned, don’t you think, Ed? And the words “Free Palestine” are not anti-Israel, no one seemed to have a big problem with any of Macklemore’s words, until some billionaire ten days later phoned him up about it.
My perception of this dude went from:
Okay maybe he likes sticking his head in the sand cause of money.
To:
He fully knows what he is doing and is complicit.
What a royal fuck up.
Also, my own two cents.
This never started as complex, and imo it’s not complex now. It is to Israel’s benefit for it to be seen as complex so they can do false equivalency.
A bully would love for observers to believe that both sides are equally in the wrong.
deleted by creator
The most complex political issue on the planet remains how to handle climate change.
IMHO that’s not really so complicated, we just do the same things we did for lead and CFCs.
Lead and CFCs were much smaller problems by amount used and necessity for use. Convincing rich countries and primary historic polluters to pay not only for their own decarbonization and sequestration, but also for that of poor countries is a hard sell, especially since many are democracies and agreeing to that would be political suicide. Add in petrostates like Saudi Arabia, Russia, and the US.
And that’s before we get into the mass migration as more parts of the world become uninhabitable due to temperature and/or lack of water.
Phasing out CFCs was a hit to efficiency and a research problem, but it cost no jobs. Phasing out lead was also a research problem and it had some controversy. Phasing out fossil fuels is a major shift in the global economy
By conceding that the reaction to October 7 was “disproportionate”, he seemed genuinely upset. Only he didn’t say how many dead kids he would consider proportionate.
I viscerally hated that word when he said it but didn’t know why until I read this article
Person A: You don’t love me anymore?
Person B: It is complicated.
Person A: really!?
I always try to give people the benefit of doubt. But now he’s said too much for that to apply.
The entirety of Palestine, Gaza, and Israel is complex. Though, it has to be said, part of that is because Israel has done everything in their power to keep it “complex”. When serious progress was being made in the early years of their nation. Their response was to assassinate the mediator. Yes. Really. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Folke_Bernadotte (Oh I mean… It was totally these extremists, a rebel group, and in no way was Israel involved, they investigated themselves and found no wrongdoing!)
The Israeli genocide in Gaza however. Is not very complex. It’s quite simple. It’s a genocide. And they need to be held accountable. Though I wouldn’t hold my breath.
Talk about the Streisand effect
Ed is taking a lot of hits lately. He may not be saying the right things but if you deal with any bank or insurance company, your money is probably being invested in companies (S&P500 companies) involved in the middle east directly or indirectly, intentionally or not. Taking action also means watching how your money and savings are being used.
Yah it’s not complex at all it’s fairly straight forward genocide.
A complex straight forward genocide, tho!
/S
