I’m a cis male and I believe in the importance of feminism, but I hesitate to call myself a feminist because it seems like there is a presumption of understanding women’s experiences as if I was part of the Me Too movement. In some binary sense given how hateful and shitty men can be I’m absolutely a feminist, but I wouldn’t declare myself to be one. What is your standpoint?
Yes 100% bc the literal definition of feminism is the equal treatment for all genders. I don’t go around just telling people that. They can probably just tell I am bc I’m not shitty to a specific gender…
Yes, I’m a cis man and I am a Marxist feminist. Feminism is not exclusionary to cis men, and Marxist feminism is critical as patriarchy is a secondary contradiction that rests upon the primary contradiction of class society. Attacking sexism attacks capitalism, and attacking capitalism attacks sexism. They are connected.
Thanks for saying this. There was a rather popular unpopular opinion a while ago about how the only struggle should be the class struggle, and feminism was getting in the way. People need to see that they’re both part of the same fight.
That is a vulgar materialist conception, from those who do not grasp dialectical materialism, as well as those who reject it deliberately. Class reductionism doesn’t recognize secondary contradictions that rest upon the base of primary contradictions, seeing each as separate and butchering how contradiction actually works as an engine of change in dialectics.
Highly recommend reading Domenico Losurdo - Class struggle for more on this.
It gets into how there’s not just a single class struggle, i.e. working class versus bourgeoisie, but many different and related class struggles. Both Marx and Engels held this multivariate view of class struggle too, and it was only later that chauvinists, anti-feminists, and imperialists restricted its meaning to the workplace only.
I hesitate to call myself a feminist because it seems like there is a presumption of understanding women’s experiences
Being a woman is the only thing that gives someone access to women’s experiences, but being a woman doesn’t automatically make someone a feminist. Neither thing presumes the other.
Yes, of course. I don’t feel the need to lead with it unprompted because that’s not where I focus my attention in terms of advocacy, but:
- Anyone who isn’t a male chauvinist is a feminist by process of elimination
- As a bicycling advocate, feminism comes with the territory because biking was a big part of the women’s lib movement back in the Victorian era. (Quick explainer, deeper dive)
Absolutely would call myself a feminist and here’s the reason. Calling yourself a feminist is a declaration that you aren’t in performance for brownie points for men’s sake and you aren’t going to fade to the background the first second the going gets tough. Feminists don’t “hate men” but the fact that their issues get sidelined the minute anybody’s feelings about their personal masculinity gets hurt means most of the time any discussion about women’s issues become about mincing around insecure men.
Feminism is egalitarianism, it is strictly NOT female superiority. The issue with calling feminism egalitarianism is it tends to be a label summerizing the passive part of the movement that asks nothing of people.
Systems that aren’t artificially adjusted just end up replicating the same shit they always had over and over and the adjustments don’t feel fair or equal to the people who have always benefitted before the change. Justice sometimes meaning giving up something to the party in need. Damn near everyone is up for equality in theory, but the moment they are asked to give up anything suddenly it’s women’s superiority. They don’t look at being passed over for the promotion in favor of an equally deserving and more generally underrepresented woman as being just or needed when it’s them who doesn’t get chosen. They still in their heart of hearts believe that whenever a woman comes out on top it’s not because she deserves to be there.
And it’s hard. It’s hard to put justice first. It’s hard to hire someone who isn’t your close personal friend who looks just like you and instead choose someone who acts or looks different who you won’t be as comfortable around. It’s hard to change your culture to be mindful of needs you don’t personally have to make someone else comfortable. The whole POINT is that it’s hard. Everything that is hard for you is a comfort, a point without personal friction you have, a PRIVILEGE that you are purposefully choosing to not cash in on anymore because that privilege was never on the table for someone else.
If you aren’t willing to face the minor discomfort of being devisive and calling yourself a feminist and gaining the ire of other men what other comforts are you not going to give up?
I prefer the term “egalitarian”. Functionally the same, but firmly places the focus on equality regardless of gender, and creates distance from the toxic misandrists who have tried to co-opt the “feminist” label.
Most feminists I’ve talked to about it say they hate people who describe themselves as “egalitarian,” essentially equating it to the “enlightened centrist” meme.
And I hate the misandrists who describe themselves as “feminists”, equating it with the “red pill” guys who turned a metaphor for radical systemic awareness into misogyny.
True, but they seem to dominate every feminist space I’ve been in, so the definition of “feminist” is hard for me to work out; nicer people seem to think it’s 1:1 with “egalitarian,” but then why have two words for the same thing?
So my conclusion has been that I’ll just keep voting and speaking in the interests of making our world treat men and women equally, and just shrug my shoulders at the labels. As I said elsewhere, that’s not enough for some feminists, so they’ll just have to continue disliking me. Misogynists dislike me too, so I’m used to it.
Would you call yourself a feminist?
Yes.
Anyway the “shaming men for being feminists”/“only women can be feminists” thing is absolutely a thing the fascists have peddled to cripple feminism.
In my humble enby opinion you can call yourself a feminist if you believe in equality between genders. There are many flavours of feminism and they often contradict each other. You will never be a perfect feminist in every feminists’ eyes. And you shouldn’t try to be.
But be humble and curious when other feminist and particularly women try to explain their point of view.
Calling myself a feminist would be stolen valour.
In the sense of “do women deserve equal treatment in society?” 100%!
I idolized my grandmothers as a kid, and they did a better job raising me than my actual parents. Both sides of the family always seemed much more matriarchal to me.
The one time I was ever in charge of anything was at a fairly sexist job and I repeatedly fought to get the ladies’ pay more in line with the guys, I reported a few people to HR for making my staff uncomfortable, and I ensured the one employee got a private lactation area after she had a baby.
Now I volunteer with animal rehab, and that is a field that is about 90% women, and they are all so badass, compassionate, they do every job, and come from every walk of life.
To see all I’ve seen and to not think anyone deserves the same treatment as me because of their gender would be insane. I don’t like labeling myself, because I’m always not going to fit someone’s definition of that thing, they can call me whatever they want, but I like to see whoever is around me getting treated right.
I’m a woman who calls myself a feminist because I don’t want to let the transphobes known as TERFs (Trans-Exclusionary Radical Feminists) have the word. (Potentially useful to highlight that whilst not all transphobes are TERFs, all TERFs are transphobes)
Some people are opposed to using the term TERF because of how misogynistic TERF ideology is — they don’t just hurt trans women, but all women. Whilst I agree that their form of feminism is harmful to women everywhere and vehemently disagree with their views, there is no “Council of Feminists” who decree who gets to call themselves a feminist. So if I want to call myself a feminist, it means having to share the room with TERFs. I don’t like that, but I’d rather do it than let them define what it means to be a feminist.
Probably more egalitarian than feminist, just because of the bad branding over the years. Same principles still apply, though. Equal rights, equal pay, full maternity/paternity leave, equal draft laws, equal dress/beachwear, etc.
Having differences between genders has always rubbed me the wrong way. People are just people.
It’s really hard to call yourself a feminist when you realize that all major achievements of western feminism aren’t the direct result of activism but rather capitalism. To paraphrase DiCaprio’s Character from Django, activism had their curiosity, the financial incentive had their attention.
Industries and governments realised that they were essentially not capitalizing on 50% of the population.
Women in the work force wasn’t a noble grant of freedom, it was an increase in production and profit. If it were truly as noble as it is made out to be, they would’ve given them equal pay from the start.
Same thing goes for women being able to have their own bank account. Women having their own money means they will spend it, driving the economy. Even the right to vote just provides another angle of attack to influence and radicalize the population. Those are the 3 corner stones, work for capital and pay income tax, spend your money and pay sales tax and vote for whoever the TV tells you to vote. Everything else is just comfort to sweeten the deal. That’s also why 3rd wave feminism has grinded to a halt. The is no capitalist financial incentive to give women even one more inch of freedom than they already have.Women haven’t won anything they’ve just gotten of the side lines, right into the corporate meatgrinder.
And now we’re here, where a two head family can’t afford to have a child because both members working 9-5 can barely support themselves financially, yet alone have the money or time to have a child. And neither corporations nor the government are eager to support them as if giving back even a single cent of profits is a cardinal sin.
To expand on what @[email protected] said, this analysis ranges from reductive to completely ahistorical.
Women have been part of the productive workforce long before the notion of equality was even on the table. The idea that women were exclusively bearing and rearing children before the industrial revolution is nonsense, women were crucial workers in agriculture and manufacture and it was impossible for a family to be fed only by the patriarch.
The relationship between capitalism and feminism is actually partly the other way around from what you are presenting. Industrialization required centralization and urbanization, which meant it was easier than ever for women to organize with their colleagues and comrades and demand equal rights. It also eased access to weapons, which allowed for direct violent action to force the ruling class to pay attention. Capitalism accelerated or even sometimes spawned feminist movements, which were always in direct contradiction with the actual capitalists who were entirely male at the time.
The idea that women haven’t won anything is just bullshit. You are right that they didn’t “win” the “right to work”, because they had that “right” forever. But what they actually did win is a smaller gender gap in pay and economic opportunities, access to better education, right to political representation, legal prohibitions on some kinds of gender violence. If you think all of this was somehow “granted” by (male) capitalists because it is profitable, that’s just untrue, most of it was directly or indirectly hurtful to the ruling class when those measures were first introduced.
Damn dude. Great read.
I would say yes, but the term is much less often used today than in the past and some people have very strange notions of what it means. I don’t think I’ve ever had the need or opportunity to use it to describe myself, even though I would fit the reasonable definitions.
When I thought of myself as a cis man I considered myself a feminist, but I didn’t call myself one. Maybe I would’ve if someone asked directly, but no one ever did. Mostly there wasn’t any reason to say so that wasn’t performance; better to act and think in accordance with the principles than conspicuously claim it.
