• ClassStruggle@lemmy.ml
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        15
        arrow-down
        3
        ·
        16 days ago

        The ones that are in charge will not allow anyone that is a threat to their authority or power to mount any attempt to change the party.

          • rambling_lunatic@sh.itjust.works
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            5
            arrow-down
            1
            ·
            15 days ago

            Looking through their history, they don’t seem to be a tankie. ClassStruggle keeps talking about forming a left party in the USA and running for elections, which is a bit too reformist to be a classic tankie.

            In any case, they’re right in this case. The Democrats expend way more energy during the elections fucking over anyone on the left than they do actually resisting the fascists.

      • kingofras@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        3
        arrow-down
        4
        ·
        16 days ago

        Thinking like this is why you are where you are with all those nukes. Form a party. Let more parties form. Ditch MSM and CSM (Centralised Social Media) and let the people decide.

        If you want to have a country without kings, you need to be prepared to have absolutely no daddy on any front, including parties and media.

    • tamal3@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      4
      ·
      15 days ago

      Maybe announcing a new party is premature, but at least talking about steps to realistically forming one would be huge. We need a revolutionary overhaul of our 2-party political system, and I posit that most Americans, those that voted and those who didn’t, would agree that 2 bad options is not a real choice.

      The binary creates the illusion of choice.

      • Suite404@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        13
        arrow-down
        2
        ·
        16 days ago

        I’d have agreed with you pre-2025. But I could see it now. The Dems have been letting us down over and over again. We need a party that cuts out billionaire money and promises to enforce the same on all politicians once they take power.

        • UsernameHere@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          2
          arrow-down
          3
          ·
          16 days ago

          The problem is, it is very hard to win elections without money. So a party that cuts out billionaire spending is less likely to win while also splitting the dem vote.

          • Ensign_Crab@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            3
            arrow-down
            1
            ·
            16 days ago

            Democrats outraised trump and still lost.

            You need to not tell your voters to fuck off if you can imagine that.

            • UsernameHere@lemmy.world
              link
              fedilink
              arrow-up
              2
              arrow-down
              3
              ·
              16 days ago

              The DNC didn’t have foreign bot farms and billionaires on their side.

              Elon literally bought votes but you don’t count that when you say “outraised Trump”.

              • Ensign_Crab@lemmy.world
                link
                fedilink
                English
                arrow-up
                1
                arrow-down
                1
                ·
                edit-2
                16 days ago

                The DNC didn’t have foreign bot farms and billionaires on their side.

                I know! Maybe if they abandon everyone that you don’t care about and focus only on the bot farms and billionaires that you do care about, they’ll win!

                Democrats can’t keep moving to the right like you want them to. They hit a wall. They peeled off none of the republican votes you envy. But they got to throw people you hate under the bus, so it’s good for you.

                • UsernameHere@lemmy.world
                  link
                  fedilink
                  arrow-up
                  1
                  arrow-down
                  2
                  ·
                  15 days ago

                  They’ve literally won the majority of elections since the 90s by appealing to moderates. They lost in 2024 because Russia had a war at stake and billionaires didn’t want to get taxed. Add in inflation from the pandemic and you have a tough campaign to win.

                  The argument that democrats can’t win without the left is not based on reality.

                  Dems tried to appeal to leftist and they screeched “genicide Joe” until Trump won.

                  Meanwhile republicans won because voters to the right of leftist know the importance of not shitting on the candidate they want to win.

          • ClassStruggle@lemmy.ml
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            4
            arrow-down
            3
            ·
            16 days ago

            Splitting the dem vote implies that Democrats are entitled to all votes, not Republican. They have never done anything to earn mine. And after lurching far to the right, like they did this last election, I can’t see how anyone thinks that they have earned their vote.

                • UsernameHere@lemmy.world
                  link
                  fedilink
                  arrow-up
                  1
                  arrow-down
                  2
                  ·
                  16 days ago

                  Dems have won the majority of elections since the 90s. Biden/Harris lost because of inflation.

                  Republicans lost by waaay more in 2020. If they followed your mentality they would’ve lost in 2024. Instead they doubled down and won.

                  • Ensign_Crab@lemmy.world
                    link
                    fedilink
                    English
                    arrow-up
                    1
                    arrow-down
                    1
                    ·
                    16 days ago

                    Democrats did what you wanted in 2016 and 2024 and lost. But at least you didn’t have to move to the left.

                    You prefer trump to moving to the left.

                  • ClassStruggle@lemmy.ml
                    link
                    fedilink
                    English
                    arrow-up
                    1
                    arrow-down
                    1
                    ·
                    15 days ago

                    In case you didn’t know leftists are not Democrats, Democrats are closer in policy to Republicans than leftists are Democrats. Your party hosted more cops, zionists, and Republicans onto their convention stage than they did progressives. They cuddled up with right wing war criminals, and tried to out Republican Republicans. Your party did this.

          • finitebanjo@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            1
            ·
            16 days ago

            The Democrats wanted to tax the rich and they still got way more donations than Trump, but all of that pales in comparison to buying out Twitter.

            You don’t have to be poor to see that Republicans are a threat to us all.

        • finitebanjo@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          1
          ·
          16 days ago

          Republicans didn’t win because the DNC couldn’t attract more voters on the center and right. Republicans didn’t win because more people joined them in 2024, their numbers barely changed at all. Republicans won because leftists stayed home.

          Because we refused to empower the DNC. Because the left splintered.

          • grue@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            3
            arrow-down
            1
            ·
            edit-2
            16 days ago

            Why are you posting irrelevant bullshit? We’re not talking about running a “third party” candidate. We’re talking about destroying the Democratic party and rebuilding it into something that isn’t traitorous and corrupt.

            it’s time for the Democrats to go the way of the Whigs.

            • UsernameHere@lemmy.world
              link
              fedilink
              arrow-up
              1
              arrow-down
              2
              ·
              16 days ago

              Sounds like you’re warming up for the next election when you’ll be trying to convince people not to vote or vote 3rd party.

              • grue@lemmy.world
                link
                fedilink
                arrow-up
                2
                arrow-down
                1
                ·
                edit-2
                16 days ago

                Sounds like you’re trying to dismiss my argument out of hand by associating me with the pro-fascist concern trolls and their useful idiots who did that in this previous election. You can fuck all the way off with that dishonest, ad-hominem bullshit.

                There’s a huge fucking difference between abandoning a candidate in the middle of the election with fuck-all for alternatives, and trying to reform or replace the party with literally as much margin as possible before the next election. If now is not the right time to try to get shit done, when is? Tell me that, O Great Arbiter of Political Acceptability!

                You need to quit your bullshit, and on top of that you owe me a goddamn apology.

                • UsernameHere@lemmy.world
                  link
                  fedilink
                  arrow-up
                  1
                  ·
                  15 days ago

                  Splitting the only opposition to the Republican Party during a coup is a guaranteed benefit to the GOP.

                  That’s what you are arguing for.

                  You want me to apologize for pointing out the cause and effect of what you’re asking for?

                  • grue@lemmy.world
                    link
                    fedilink
                    arrow-up
                    2
                    ·
                    edit-2
                    15 days ago

                    You say splitting is a guaranteed benefit to the GOP, but I’d say that keeping the resistance neutered by being stuck behind “leadership” that’s ineffectual at best, or a traitorous quisling at worst, benefits the GOP even more.

                    Anyway, I’m not arguing for splitting the opposition. I’m arguing for supplanting it so thoroughly that the old guard (Schumer, Pelosi, et al.) finds it untenable to continue.

                    If that fails, it fails, and we crawl back and support the Democratic candidate as a last-ditch effort at harm reduction, just like before. But we’ve got to try, because otherwise Schumer is going to “collaborate” us straight into the gas chambers.