The system is corrupt, not everyone involved is corrupt or has been corrupted. I do my best to learn who isn’t corrupt, but we live in this system and not participating in it only hurts me.
The system isn’t corrupt, it’s working for the same group it always has: the capitalist class. There has never been a point that this has not been true. Perhaps for a short period during reconstruction, before that got taken over and destroyed.
It’s easy on the mind to falsely equate the two parties but there’s a reason there aren’t El-Sayeds, Tlaibs, Sanders, AOCs, Mamdanis, and Talaricos within the Republican coalition but exist in Dem circles. There’s a reason Dems end more wars than they start. There’s a reason Dems brought around Same-sex marriage. There’s a reason a Dem president worked hard to get the JCPOA passed but a Republican one undermined it.
Both sides are thus far from the same. Democrats are undeniably better. This is a false equivalence fallacy.
For the record, I have this user tagged as supporting Jill Stein in 2024, pushing a spoiler vote that only ever enables Republicans.
I don’t have them tagged. I just have their username memorized from how many times I’ve downvoted them.
Democrats are objectively better. And in a system where only two parties have the clout to win, especially on a federal level, it is objectively smarter to vote for the objectively better one.
I have voted for Jill Stein three times now. If you want me to vote for the Democratic candidate, the solution is simple: get them to adopt Stein’s platform.
I don’t have any particular loyalty to Stein or even to the Green Party in general. Politics isn’t a team sport for me. All I care about is policy.
the solution is simple: get them to adopt Stein’s platform during the Democratic Primaries where you decide which type of candidates run under the Democratic banner.
After that, it’s pretty clear:
Democrats are better on Climate Change (Dems joined Paris Climate Agreement; Trump/Republicans left it)
Democrats are better on Healthcare (Thank Dems for No Preexisting conditions, out of pocket maximums, extended dependents on parental plans; Trump withdrew from WHO)
Democrats are better on diplomacy (forged the JCPOA, did not start war with Iran).
Democrats are better on the subject of Ukrainian sovereignty (and conversely, Russian genocide).
Some Democratic members are the only ones who denounce Israel’s genocide against Palestinians.
Democrats are better on LGBTQ+ Rights
Democrats are better on Women’s Rights (e.g., Pro-Choice).
Being better is all that matters come November general election, given the nature of a binary-choice election. If you want different parties, then one must first change the rules from within and abolish FPTP that yields mathematical convergence to two-party rule.
If you are unfamiliar with the Spoiler Effect, I encourage you to read up on it because what you’re doing is actually enabling fascist Republicans to win, since I assume these are your top issues.
If not, please tell me what your top 3-5 issues and core values are and I’d be happy to discuss.
I have my gripes with Democrats and always push heavily against the milquetoast centrists, AIPAC, etc., but after the primaries — I know which party is primarily responsible for the deaths of Alex Pretti and Renee Good.
Edit: By the way, Trump’s withdrawal of USAID has led to more than half a million deaths globally in just a year’s time and rising, dwarfing even the Palestinian and Ukrainian genocides.
Magician Jill Stein who magically appears right before an election, siphons votes, then magically disappears again after the election?
Yeah, the news media only pays attention to the Green Party during presidential elections. That doesn’t mean that we aren’t doing anything in between elections.
Besides, nobody holds this standard to Democrats. What’s Kamala Harris doing? I mean, besides hawking a book about how she lost. Why didn’t I ever see her at any Black Lives Matter protests? Or any protests? Jill Stein goes to protests all the time.
The same Jill Stein that accumulated a MASSIVE 0.5% of the total votes cast in 2024, proving she never had the slightest chance in hell of winning?
Nobody has a chance of winning if you don’t vote for them.
Sounds like a shithole country. In a normal democracy, you’re allowed more options and you can spoil your ballot if you wanna send a message. It’s your right.
Imagine being stupid enough to think both parties are actually the same in spite of literally all the public evidence of proposed legislation and votes. You’d have to be really fucking stupid or just acting in bad faith to promote that idea.
literally all the public evidence of proposed legislation and votes
Hey, can you bring up the confirmation vote for Marco Rubio at Secretary of State? How about the Protect College Sports Act of 2026?
No shortage of broad bipartisan agreement on legislation and executive action. Even the shit stiff. Dem Senators were huge fans of the Iran War when it started, for instance. There’s wide support for Israeli war crimes, Ukraine weapons sales, and regime change in Latin America and East Asia. Even when it comes to immigration, it’s damned hard to find a sitting Democrat who wants to stop ICE agents from kidnapping and torturing people.
You’ve got a smattering of wedge issues that divide the parties. But when push comes to shove… well… Look at what Gavin Newsom has vetoed recently.
Nice cherry picking that more or less proves my point. So let’s pretend you aren’t here in bad faith even though you’re a known quantity, how does your solution of letting the republicans win benefit the people?
And none of them ever reply when you point out that their solution is to just let republicans win, because they don’t actually care about any people anywhere they just want society to collapse because they’re profoundly ignorant. They’re the ideological opposite but the intellectual equivalent of libertarians. Fuckin tankies.
So the reality is in almost every district in the united states the choice is democratic or republican, and if you’re not voting for the democratic you’re voting for the republican. You all ignore this fundamental reality which means you saying don’t vote for dems means explicitly let the republicans win ergo that is your default solution unless you’re offering another actually realistically plausible one. But you’re not. You’re all just trying to get republicans elected.
in almost every district in the united states the choice is democratic or republican
If you are siding with a fascist government of a rival party on more than 70% of their policy, why would I continue to support you? Henry Cuellar has been in office since 2005 in a district that consistently sends Democrats up at the local and federal level. He’s only held his seat with his vast network of mega-donors pummeling the district with money.
He was indicted on federal charges including bribery, money laundering, conspiracy, and acting as unregistered foreign agents involving roughly $600,000 in alleged payments from Azerbaijan’s state-owned oil company and a Mexican bank. And he only got relief with a Trump Pardon.
What good is backing this nakedly corrupt asshole, simply because he’s got a D beside his name?
You act like Democrats are incapable of being fuckups, crooks, and foreign agents.
Would you still be voting for Bob Menendez if he was running? What about Anthony Weiner? Are you a big fan of Jim Justice? Eric Swalwell? Graham Platner?
Are you incapable of seeing past party registration when evaluating a candidate?
These are people who don’t bother perusing the voting history of both parties, which draws an unbelievably clear line between the parties.
These are people that don’t bother looking at the stats to know that things are always economically better under Dems.
These are people who apparently don’t have eyes or ears because anyone that has lived through periods of both parties having control knows that things are always more stable, less threatening under Dems.
The two parties are so not the same that brain damage is the only excuse for believing they are.
Both parties lead to the same policy outcomes.
But individuals within the respective parties reap extraordinary benefits when they are in control of the contracting process for these policies.
The corrupt system is not less cut throat because multiple people are trying to exploit it.
Disagree.
There is a point I agree about the rest though. Jeffries needs to get the boot. I think Chuck’s ready to retire.
The system is corrupt, not everyone involved is corrupt or has been corrupted. I do my best to learn who isn’t corrupt, but we live in this system and not participating in it only hurts me.
The system isn’t corrupt, it’s working for the same group it always has: the capitalist class. There has never been a point that this has not been true. Perhaps for a short period during reconstruction, before that got taken over and destroyed.
Sort of the bitch of a corrupt system. You don’t need everyone to be on the take for the system to be hopelessly spoiled.
That doesn’t keep them out of office
It’s easy on the mind to falsely equate the two parties but there’s a reason there aren’t El-Sayeds, Tlaibs, Sanders, AOCs, Mamdanis, and Talaricos within the Republican coalition but exist in Dem circles. There’s a reason Dems end more wars than they start. There’s a reason Dems brought around Same-sex marriage. There’s a reason a Dem president worked hard to get the JCPOA passed but a Republican one undermined it.
Both sides are thus far from the same. Democrats are undeniably better. This is a false equivalence fallacy.
For the record, I have this user tagged as supporting Jill Stein in 2024, pushing a spoiler vote that only ever enables Republicans.
I don’t have them tagged. I just have their username memorized from how many times I’ve downvoted them.
Democrats are objectively better. And in a system where only two parties have the clout to win, especially on a federal level, it is objectively smarter to vote for the objectively better one.
I have voted for Jill Stein three times now. If you want me to vote for the Democratic candidate, the solution is simple: get them to adopt Stein’s platform.
I don’t have any particular loyalty to Stein or even to the Green Party in general. Politics isn’t a team sport for me. All I care about is policy.
After that, it’s pretty clear:
Being better is all that matters come November general election, given the nature of a binary-choice election. If you want different parties, then one must first change the rules from within and abolish FPTP that yields mathematical convergence to two-party rule.
If you are unfamiliar with the Spoiler Effect, I encourage you to read up on it because what you’re doing is actually enabling fascist Republicans to win, since I assume these are your top issues.
If not, please tell me what your top 3-5 issues and core values are and I’d be happy to discuss.
I have my gripes with Democrats and always push heavily against the milquetoast centrists, AIPAC, etc., but after the primaries — I know which party is primarily responsible for the deaths of Alex Pretti and Renee Good.
Edit: By the way, Trump’s withdrawal of USAID has led to more than half a million deaths globally in just a year’s time and rising, dwarfing even the Palestinian and Ukrainian genocides.
I supported Sanders during the 2016 and 2020 primaries. He did not win.
I did too.
I still voted for Hillary, Joe, and Kamala post-Primaries (all significantly better than Trump and Republicans).
(That’s also why Sanders supported and voted for all three, too!)
Sometimes you don’t win.
Fun fact: Wil Smith does not actually say "Welcome to Erf" in Independence Day.
He says “Earth”. He enunciates. People remember it differently because of…Mandela Effect? Racism? Memes? Some combination?
Why didn’t he? Did he lack mass appeal and support amongst the working class?
Do you think The Party regrets their decision to cheat him out of the presidency?
Jill Stein?
Magician Jill Stein who magically appears right before an election, siphons votes, then magically disappears again after the election?
The same Jill Stein that accumulated a MASSIVE 0.5% of the total votes cast in 2024, proving she never had the slightest chance in hell of winning?
Did you poop on your vote before flushing it?
Yeah, the news media only pays attention to the Green Party during presidential elections. That doesn’t mean that we aren’t doing anything in between elections.
Besides, nobody holds this standard to Democrats. What’s Kamala Harris doing? I mean, besides hawking a book about how she lost. Why didn’t I ever see her at any Black Lives Matter protests? Or any protests? Jill Stein goes to protests all the time.
Nobody has a chance of winning if you don’t vote for them.
Jill Stein who’s famously on Putin’s payroll and exists fully as a spoiler? You’re a republican with extra steps.
“v0te Blüē N0 MaTT3r whö” 🦉
All they care about is their team winning and get mad at anyone who questions their party facilitating a fkn genocide.
It’s a binary system whether you like it or not. Democrats or Republicans will dictate your life. Of course vote blue no matter who, you silly twat.
Sounds like a shithole country. In a normal democracy, you’re allowed more options and you can spoil your ballot if you wanna send a message. It’s your right.
Imagine being stupid enough to think both parties are actually the same in spite of literally all the public evidence of proposed legislation and votes. You’d have to be really fucking stupid or just acting in bad faith to promote that idea.
Yeah, crazy, why would people think that?
Hey, can you bring up the confirmation vote for Marco Rubio at Secretary of State? How about the Protect College Sports Act of 2026?
No shortage of broad bipartisan agreement on legislation and executive action. Even the shit stiff. Dem Senators were huge fans of the Iran War when it started, for instance. There’s wide support for Israeli war crimes, Ukraine weapons sales, and regime change in Latin America and East Asia. Even when it comes to immigration, it’s damned hard to find a sitting Democrat who wants to stop ICE agents from kidnapping and torturing people.
You’ve got a smattering of wedge issues that divide the parties. But when push comes to shove… well… Look at what Gavin Newsom has vetoed recently.
Nice cherry picking that more or less proves my point. So let’s pretend you aren’t here in bad faith even though you’re a known quantity, how does your solution of letting the republicans win benefit the people?
It doesn’t. They just like whining. They’ve been whining as long as I’ve been on Lemmy.
And none of them ever reply when you point out that their solution is to just let republicans win, because they don’t actually care about any people anywhere they just want society to collapse because they’re profoundly ignorant. They’re the ideological opposite but the intellectual equivalent of libertarians. Fuckin tankies.
It’s so bizarre to see people insist “let Republicans win” is something anyone is suggesting.
You don’t have control over 150M voters. You aren’t single-handedly deciding whether a Republican or a Democrat wins.
Fucking delusional to insist a single anonymous asshole on the Internet created the national political landscape by way of bad vibes.
So the reality is in almost every district in the united states the choice is democratic or republican, and if you’re not voting for the democratic you’re voting for the republican. You all ignore this fundamental reality which means you saying don’t vote for dems means explicitly let the republicans win ergo that is your default solution unless you’re offering another actually realistically plausible one. But you’re not. You’re all just trying to get republicans elected.
If you are siding with a fascist government of a rival party on more than 70% of their policy, why would I continue to support you? Henry Cuellar has been in office since 2005 in a district that consistently sends Democrats up at the local and federal level. He’s only held his seat with his vast network of mega-donors pummeling the district with money.
He was indicted on federal charges including bribery, money laundering, conspiracy, and acting as unregistered foreign agents involving roughly $600,000 in alleged payments from Azerbaijan’s state-owned oil company and a Mexican bank. And he only got relief with a Trump Pardon.
What good is backing this nakedly corrupt asshole, simply because he’s got a D beside his name?
You act like Democrats are incapable of being fuckups, crooks, and foreign agents.
Would you still be voting for Bob Menendez if he was running? What about Anthony Weiner? Are you a big fan of Jim Justice? Eric Swalwell? Graham Platner?
Are you incapable of seeing past party registration when evaluating a candidate?
Right?
These are people who don’t bother perusing the voting history of both parties, which draws an unbelievably clear line between the parties.
These are people that don’t bother looking at the stats to know that things are always economically better under Dems.
These are people who apparently don’t have eyes or ears because anyone that has lived through periods of both parties having control knows that things are always more stable, less threatening under Dems.
The two parties are so not the same that brain damage is the only excuse for believing they are.