There’s a lot of ‘either-or’ fallacy going on here.
You can be pissed off at Biden and Harris for their enabling genocide; angry at the DNC for making the same mistakes again and again that keep opening the door to fascism, recognize Trump as the worst case scenario, vote for Harris despite the bullshit above cuz she was the clear lesser evil, be angry at other voters for either overtly supporting fascism or allowing it to win in some self-defeating act of defiance, and recognize that people are burnt the fuck out and drew the line at both sides supporting genocide to just clock out and let the world burn cuz nothing else is working.
Pointing your finger at any one person or concept isn’t going to accomplish shit. We’re dealing with a system that’s absolutely saturated with compounding failures.
The solution? I don’t fucking know. Probably nothing Lemmy’s TOS would allow us to discuss. But two or three or fifty etc things can be true at the same time, and what we DON’T need to be doing is fragmenting communities that see eye to eye 99% of the time - that’ll just package ourselves up in little bite sized pieces for the fucking Nazis to steamroll like they did the last time.
“An American Tragedy 2: How they’ll fucking do it again in a few years if Democrats keep running on a return to normalcy boogaloo”
It’s wild to me that we’re having a discussion about Israel in these comments, voters told us exactly what their major concerns were and they were economic and it wasn’t even close. Foreign policy, trans issues, etc are all hot button topics easy to argue over but voters felt the economy was bad and that’s the biggest reason Trump won.
29% - Ending Israel’s violence in Gaza
24% - The economy
12% - Medicare and Social Security
11% - Immigration and border security
10% - Healthcare
9% - Abortion policy
5% - Don’t knowExcept these people didn’t decide the election, because almost nobody who voted where it matters did this and if every one of them had shown up the outcome would have been the same. Across the six states that flipped from 2020 to 2024, Harris lost less than 80,000 votes combined. She was less than a percent off Biden’s record setting performance. Trump gained more than 800,000 votes in the same places. The block that decided the election was not Democrats ‘staying home,’ it was independant and irregular voters showing up—for Trump.
She got 7 million fewer votes than Biden.
Now I’m not saying the economy wasn’t important, I’m just countering the claim that “it wasn’t even close” - it clearly was.
Good job pretending like you don’t understand that the electoral college exists and why that matters.
And in order to figure what was most important to voters you also have to consider the ones that actually, you know, voted. Which that poll almost entirely ignores.
Okay, so the poll I linked were people that voted. They cast ballots for someone other than Harris.
Yes, some of the questions in the poll address the fraction of the poll who did vote for someone other than Harris. Which is why I wrote ‘almost’. The poll completely ignores the question of actual fraction of voters that those questions are attempting to represent (not many) as well as what the much, much larger fraction of voters who voted for both Biden and Harris thought. You have to go to the other poll for that and the answers about the influence of Biden’s policy toward providing weapons to Israel become less clear.
- Did the Biden administration’s policy of providing taxpayer-funded weapons to Israel make you [more likely to vote for Kamala Harris in 2024, less likely], or make no difference?
More likely . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 14%
Less likely . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . … . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 9%
Make no difference . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 77%
- If Kamala Harris had pledged to break from President Biden’s policy toward Gaza by promising to withhold additional weapons to Israel for committing human rights abuses against Palestinian civilians, would it have made you [more enthusiastic, less enthusiastic] to vote for Harris, or make no difference? Asked of those who voted for Harris
More enthusiastic . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 35%
Less enthusiastic . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5%
Make no difference . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 59%
Forcing one to wonder how exactly the translation between enthusiasm and voting likelihood works. The only thing that does seem to be clear is ‘makes no difference’ was by far the most popular opinion, which is pretty easy to read as people cared most about something else.
None of that reads as “wasn’t even close” to me. That looks like, actually, it was significant and it did influence a lot of voters and it shouldn’t be dismissed. 35% is not insignificant - even if, as you say, it’s hard to translate [more enthusiastic, less enthusiastic] into actual tangible votes. What we can clearly see, though, is that siding with Biden on Gaza definitely didn’t help. Only 5% of voters would have been turned off by her deciding to break with Biden on Israel. She’d have lost almost nothing and gained a lot.
Would Harris have won if she broke with Biden? I don’t know, and I’m not saying she would! I only want to push back on the implied claim that it was irrelevant.
Online sample of 604 voters fielded from December 20 to January 07, 2025.
Lol
So they polled people who were chilling on the internet over the holidays, like 6 weeks after the election
Pardon me if I find Pew more trustworthy
IMEU and YouGov are generally considered credible sources, but okay.
Wild. When you dig into those poll results it is sadly clear that Kamala only would’ve won by pivoting right.
Well… They felt it was bad, but actually it’s pretty fucking good. So the cause is clearly uneducated dumbfuck voters? Keep em stupid and keep em watching TV.
I’m mean, OK, but less than 1/3 of the registered voters voted Trump. Less than 1/3.
I fully expect 1/3 of our country to be right wing, but for another 1/3 to just sit home and stare at themselves in their precious phones… how can they live with themselves?
