I mean…my guy…it’s 1% as bad here as it is in Gaza. It would not be just fine. Just fine for you maybe.
They have to change. And It’s not some massive crazy line in the sand to not vote for people who actively support genocide. That’s like…the lowest possible bar to clear.
This is not a math question in which democrats winning is good and democrats losing is bad. And frankly, even if it were that straightforward, it still wouldn’t be the same as voting for a republican, because voting republican is twice as bad on net…so maybe you need to think about your back-of-the-napkin math?
The whole point is that we do not want the Democrats, as they are, to win. We want them to change. We want someone other than genocidiers to run the country. And if they won’t change to stop supporting a genocide AND they won’t change to win, that’s their choice, not mine.
The democrats winning, as they are, would be infinitely worse than the democrats changing.
I disagree quite fundamentally that not voting for the democrats is the same choice as voting for republicans…but it sounds like you’re going somewhere, so sure, we can talk about it!
If you frame it this way, you have two choices:
A. vote for the democratic party; or B. not vote for the democratic party.
Same page so far.
I don’t care if independents win or if the democrats start to become slightly less evil. But for fuck’s sake, the democrats victory should be contingent upon them pulling support for Israel. And they should have no problem doing that. Anything short of that is horrifying.
Fascism for thee, palestinians, but not for me? We should accept conducing genocide abroad as the cost of having less fascism here?
How about the democrats just be minimally acceptable human beings? No? No it’s the voters fault for not voting for the slightly less demonic demons. All the stuff going on domestically is terrible but it’s a drop in the bucket of all the terrible shit the democrats and republicans are both happy to do. You think the handful of protesters murdered by ICE are bad? You think the dozens killed in their detention camps are bad? Well you’re god damn right they are…and you’ll be really pissed when you hear about the tens of thousands ruthlessly slaughtered in Gaza!
I’m sorry, is not supporting a genocide just too much to ask? If you say “yes!” think about what that means. If you say “no!” then what the hell are you talking about, shilling for those ghouls?
Democrats can’t win without ceasing to support the genocide of Palestinians.
He’s being downvoted because this was the democrats’ race to lose and they lost it spectacularly. Don’t blame non-voters for not turning up for the candidate that said “shut up about the genocide that we support and that i intend to confine to support”
Or for a party that abandons every campaign promise other than “things will not fundamentally change.”
The Democrats could try a little leadership for god’s sake. The top level comment blames the party, the comment you responded to blames the people. That’s why it’s downvoted, I think.
Gaza is not worse off than if the democrats changed, because if the democrats changed they’d win, as you point out yourself. And then things would be better for Gaza. I know you’re saying it’s worse off under Republicans than under Democrats…I’m skeptical it would be any different, but whatever, sure, maybe it’s 10% worse, idk. None of my business. I’m not voting for 10% less demonic when they could just stop being demons instead.
We’re not fucked because we didn’t vote for the Democrats, we’re fucked because the Democrats decided that continuing to support a genocide was more important than winning. No one should be asked to hold their nose that hard. Getting killed by Nazis would be better than actively helping and legitimizing the diet-nazis. The domestic horror is a rounding error. Feel free to throw in other points if you want too, medicare for all or whatever, maybe those would have been enough to make a difference, but I think Palestine is a pretty goddamn huge one. I’m sure you know, but in case you didn’t, 2020 biden would have beaten 2024 trump…trump didn’t win (he did worse than he did in 2020), the democrats lost hard.
The party doesn’t cease to exist when it’s not in power; they don’t need to be in office to change. The party platform could say “Israel is conducting a genocide in Palestine and if you vote for us we’ll put a stop to US support for it.” They could announce that first thing in the morning if they gave a shit. I’d be banging on doors for them tomorrow afternoon, and I don’t think that’s an unusual position. Since they don’t give a shit about the genocide they have to carefully weigh whether it’s worthwhile, from the perspective of electoral success, to alienate zionists in order to win the support of people who do give a shit. Fine, I can’t control that. But I can control whether I vote for them or not; whether they actually have to consider that or not. Let them decide, but don’t look at me askance for not wanting to vote for more support for genocide.
If you voted for Harris, she was explicit, you were voting for continued support for genocide in Palestine. Maybe you can hold your nose and say “relative to trump, some slight reduction in horror there and significant reduction in horror here is enough for me to vote for continued horror there,” good for you, I 'aint judging, I don’t care. I can’t do that.