This is true but I think there’s a point to be made about how out-of-touch both the government and the public media apparatus are with the convictions of normal people regarding many things but this issue in particular.
The entire media landscape (Both private and especially the publicly funded media) is 100% aligned with the plans and goals of the government currently. When you compare the opinion, especially on gaza, of regular people to the overton window of opinions that are platformed and reproduced in TV Talkshows, Newspapers and Online channels, I feel like there’s a huge disparity between them. I think it’s fair to say that even beyond personal anecdotal experience, the public opinion sways heavily towards supporting palestine or at least condemning israel while the media and ALL political parties (Yes also the PdL) support the zionist cause, some more blatantly and some less.
That’s not to say that the average german citizen doesn’t have some truly insane opinions on many issues but supporting the genocide perpetrated by israel does make you an outlier across the political spectrum among normal people who don’t spend their lives in elitist circles of politics or media outlets. At least that’s my impression, please do correct me if you think that’s wrong
They are brainwashed by their government but also refuse to undo that brainwashing. This comm exists because the feddit.org (German one) banned me for calling the German government Nazis for supplying weapons to a genocide. Even most of the “left” Germans who know what Israel is doing have ingrained racism so much that they are offended more by semantics than the actions of their Nazi government.
Well, nazi has a meaning and the german government is not a national socialist one; it’s a liberal democracy like many others (Not to imply that that’s a good thing). They’ve learned their lesson from WW2 and are very much opposed to the idea of a “German special path”. Instead they focus on the EU and “the west” as a whole as a global superpower. I think this is actually one of the main points of contention that the established political parties have with the AfD.
To be fair that’s probably not the reason feddit banned you when you said that. I’ve also noticed that many german online spaces are completely deranged politically and very aligned with what the government and media propagate. I don’t know if those people on reddit, feddit or some german lemmy dot world spaces are representative of regular people though; in my experience most people you meet outside who aren’t hardline state loyal liberals are quite open to critique directed at israel.
Additionally, I think “Left” is kind of a vague term because in my experience everyone and their mom identifies themselves as “left wing” or “left leaning” from the center of the CDU all the way to the PdL. If you talk to communists though you will not hear many positive words about israel.
They’ve learned their lesson from WW2 and are very much opposed to the idea of a “German special path”. Instead they focus on the EU and “the west” as a whole as a global superpower.
I uhhh don’t think that’s the lesson there was to be learned from WW2
Me neither. But that’s one of the main lessons that the government (Which I am opposed to for the record) seems to have taken away from it. When I say “This is how it is” I obviously am not saying “This is good” or “This is justified and reasonable”. I’m simply trying to describe reality as I see it. If you think my assessment is wrong then please let me hear your perspective but don’t assume that just because I describe something I must also be supportive of that thing being the way it is.
The overwhelming majority of German parties support this
This is true but I think there’s a point to be made about how out-of-touch both the government and the public media apparatus are with the convictions of normal people regarding many things but this issue in particular.
The entire media landscape (Both private and especially the publicly funded media) is 100% aligned with the plans and goals of the government currently. When you compare the opinion, especially on gaza, of regular people to the overton window of opinions that are platformed and reproduced in TV Talkshows, Newspapers and Online channels, I feel like there’s a huge disparity between them. I think it’s fair to say that even beyond personal anecdotal experience, the public opinion sways heavily towards supporting palestine or at least condemning israel while the media and ALL political parties (Yes also the PdL) support the zionist cause, some more blatantly and some less.
That’s not to say that the average german citizen doesn’t have some truly insane opinions on many issues but supporting the genocide perpetrated by israel does make you an outlier across the political spectrum among normal people who don’t spend their lives in elitist circles of politics or media outlets. At least that’s my impression, please do correct me if you think that’s wrong
They are brainwashed by their government but also refuse to undo that brainwashing. This comm exists because the feddit.org (German one) banned me for calling the German government Nazis for supplying weapons to a genocide. Even most of the “left” Germans who know what Israel is doing have ingrained racism so much that they are offended more by semantics than the actions of their Nazi government.
The average German leftist doesn’t tolerate any non Germans even talking about genocide, in their opinion, that should be left to the experts.
Well, nazi has a meaning and the german government is not a national socialist one; it’s a liberal democracy like many others (Not to imply that that’s a good thing). They’ve learned their lesson from WW2 and are very much opposed to the idea of a “German special path”. Instead they focus on the EU and “the west” as a whole as a global superpower. I think this is actually one of the main points of contention that the established political parties have with the AfD.
To be fair that’s probably not the reason feddit banned you when you said that. I’ve also noticed that many german online spaces are completely deranged politically and very aligned with what the government and media propagate. I don’t know if those people on reddit, feddit or some german lemmy dot world spaces are representative of regular people though; in my experience most people you meet outside who aren’t hardline state loyal liberals are quite open to critique directed at israel.
Additionally, I think “Left” is kind of a vague term because in my experience everyone and their mom identifies themselves as “left wing” or “left leaning” from the center of the CDU all the way to the PdL. If you talk to communists though you will not hear many positive words about israel.
I uhhh don’t think that’s the lesson there was to be learned from WW2
Me neither. But that’s one of the main lessons that the government (Which I am opposed to for the record) seems to have taken away from it. When I say “This is how it is” I obviously am not saying “This is good” or “This is justified and reasonable”. I’m simply trying to describe reality as I see it. If you think my assessment is wrong then please let me hear your perspective but don’t assume that just because I describe something I must also be supportive of that thing being the way it is.