Sorry I didn’t know which other community to post this on😅. So let me take example of my country, Well so what most people don’t know, is that India is a socialist democracy by the constitution, and I must admit before I start that yes, there’s plenty of problems with this country, but I was surprised by how deep socialist roots go in this country, so I thought a few of India’s policies would make an excellent case study.
Firstly, a subtle one, existence of MRP, maximum retail price, on everything you buy. Packet of lays, coke, medicine, everything has an MRP, over which you cannot sell the product for. Enforcement had been weak historically, but even then you would only see people selling above MRP in amusement parks or movie theatres, for everyday shopping, you are almost always likely to pay the MRP price. I was surprised to know that such law doesn’t exist in the west, though feel free to correct me.
Second, India’s medicine patent laws. India has strict ‘non evergreening’ laws, which means a patent of a medicine cannot be extended unless you made the medicine better. Also government can give orders to bypass medicine patents if deemed necessary.
Third the farming in India. A nice rabbithole to dig in, but I am picking one example, Amul, the most popular brand of milk in India, is less like a company and more like a co-operative society, where they co-operate with regional dairy farms. Most of the money made by selling the milk actually goes back to the farmers.
Plenty of examples, but just these few I could think of. Infact MRP does not even exist in China, so in that policy, India is literally more left than China.
Yeah again, Indian laws in practice are riddled with corruption, but I think the template they work in are interesting, and I think west would tackle those problems a lot better.
Any more examples of socialist democracies?
Many people like Canada compared to the USA for its more socialist policies like healthcare and social safety nets. These systems aren’t perfect in Canada but are certainly better than not having them. The problem is we can’t call it socialism because many on our far right will twist anything with socialism included in it to equal literal nazis. A lot of those same far right also push for more police power, deportation, and overall a national “white Canadians” world view. Its fucking stupid.
India is not a socialist democracy, the working classes do not control the state and private ownership is the principal aspect of the economy, rather than public. Modern socialist states include the PRC, Cuba, DPRK, Vietnam, Laos, and partially Venezuela. Former socialist states include the USSR, and the various Warsaw Pact countries. Thinking about “left vs. right” in terms of single economic policies, rather than the dynamics of class struggle in a given society, is an error.
Great discussion!
First order of business; let’s define “socialism”, or “Democratic socialism”, because as a citizen of the US, this (these) terms have been bastardized beyond recognition.
Second order of business; the term “left” is also muddled (certainly in my country, but also in the global context). Historically it’s those who are nationalist (don’t want external rule). Modern usage seems less concrete.
I like the idea of MRP for staple goods. Are there any producers that make the cost of products below the MRP?
Oh, well mrp is mostly for packed food and goods. It’s extremely rare to find stuff below MRP in normal shops, but some wholesale grocery stores would sell stuff for lower than the MRP.
For stuff like vegetables and fruits, we don’t practice MRP, but at the same time, that vegetable is far more likely to come from a local farmer than in USA. Actually unless you buy from shopping markets, that vegetable is 100% from local farmer, and most people don’t buy from shopping markets, they buy from local vegetable vendors. There’s plenty of government intervention in agriculture that protects local farmers, but currently I don’t remember much of it
Most of fennoscandia (skandinavia + Finland) think of themselves as socialist democracies. Although political power of big companies and right wing parties they control has been eroding government ownership of large business, public education system and healthcare system for decades.
Not sure if they are that anymore.
Those are social democracies, socialism requires that the working classes control the state and public ownership is the principal aspect of the economy. Social democracy is largely a concession to prevent socialism.
The UK has RRP as an equivalent, but they address the problem differently really. MRP is stop price gauging I think, whereas RRP is there to incentivise retailers to offer discounts to lure more customers.
We also have co-op’s that run supermarkets and banks, but they compete against private companies.
I think Europe is fairly social in its services (healthcare, pensions, etc.).
Yup, erurope definitely is. Infact India, despite being socialist democracy, does not have real ways of tackling healthcare and pension. Yes we have government funded hospitals but the service there is abyssimal. Only thing I know about Europe is that they don’t have any equivalent to Indian medicine laws, rest I agree on
If you want to ask about socialism, lemmygrad.ml is the right place.
Firstly, a subtle one, existence of MRP, maximum retail price, on everything you buy. Packet of lays, coke, medicine, everything has an MRP, over which you cannot sell the product for. Enforcement had been weak historically, but even then you would only see people selling above MRP in amusement parks or movie theatres, for everyday shopping, you are almost always likely to pay the MRP price. I was surprised to know that such law doesn’t exist in the west, though feel free to correct me.
Second, India’s medicine patent laws. India has strict ‘non evergreening’ laws, which means a patent of a medicine cannot be extended unless you made the medicine better. Also government can give orders to bypass medicine patents if deemed necessary.
Plenty of examples, but just these few I could think of. Infact MRP does not even exist in China, so in that policy, India is literally more left than China.
Market interventionism (example: price control) isn’t leftism. Paternalistic conservatism is rightist ideology that uses market interventionism.
Third the farming in India. A nice rabbithole to dig in, but I am picking one example, Amul, the most popular brand of milk in India, is less like a company and more like a co-operative society, where they co-operate with regional dairy farms. Most of the money made by selling the milk actually goes back to the farmers.
Nice information.
I am sorry if my english is bad.
