A Ukrainian drone struck a civilian bus on the Krasnodar-Melitopol route in Zaporozhye Region, with all 11 people aboard escaping unharmed, officials say
The US being wrong does not make its enemies right. I don’t think that right now, in the current way the world is, there is much of a “good side” because most countries are doing horrible shit. If you start going for the lesser evil, you accept that as the new norm and it continues worsening.
Yes, I do disagree. Because even if it were to be true, Russia is still doing things in the worst possible way. Ukraine is having nazis? Then influence their elections (which Russia loves to do) to make them shift away from it. Find economic or political leverage to pressure them. Setup rescue operations or diplomatic passage for the potential victims. But steamrolling the whole country, killing basically everyone you can on your way? I’m sorry, that’s not how it works.
If Ukraine is made of nazis, then the nazis must be taken care of, yes. But what Russia is then doing (assuming that what you’ve been saying were to be true), is the equivalent of the US dropping a bunch of nuclear bombs on a Japan at the brink of surrender, or of the winners of WWI dismantling Germany to “punish” it for its leadership, or of Israel trying to conquer and destroy all the countries around it that it doesn’t like. Or even, of all those western countries that use the excuse of counter-terrorism to consider every individual a potential threat that deserves death. It’s an oppressor move, and these cannot be supported.
A powerful country like Russia has many ways to solve any conflict or problem, and if they pick the violent, oppressive, indiscriminate way, then they are wrong.
The US being on the wrong side of every conflict is a pretty good reason to think it’s on the wrong side of this one, too. The US needs to be defeated. Besides, we can’t fight the whole world at once.
And it was already far too late to rely on influencing elections (and it’s not like Russia is uncontested - do you think the US doesn’t influence elections? ) because Ukraine was already at war with separatists in the Donbas. Russia intervened because the war was already ongoing, their options were either to invade or open the borders to refugees (and that would have caused a lot of other problems that Russia couldn’t handle). Ukraine didn’t just have neonazis. They were in the government, passing nazi policies, doing nazi things.
The equivalent would be if Mexico attacked the US for ICE putting people in concentration camps and gunning them down in the streets.
But how many countries have been on the “right side”? You can look at most western countries history and most events will be on the wrong side. Even the ones fighting the nazis during ww2 were doing it for shitty reasons half of the time. Yes, the US is shit, and generally siding with the US is a problem; that doesn’t mean that you should side with Russia. “The enemy of my enemy is my friend” is a bullshit saying that just means that you can be opportunistic to take advantage of the situation, it’s not a good moral stance.
I find it easy to say that opening the borders would be too much to handle. Rescuing people is too much to handle, but launching yourself in an endless war that causes gigantic amounts of casualties, this is doable? I call bullshit.
And once again, the problem is the proof. What you describe in Ukraine is a symptom of the decline of modern democracies, it’s a disease, not an intention. France right now is passing a law giving a right to kill to cops, after years of anti-immigration policies and nazis in various levels of the government. It’s not because the country is nazi, it’s because nazis are trying to take control of it. If you attack France right now, guess who will take advantage of the crisis and seize control of the country to “save” it? The nazis that have been hoping for an opportunity. And if anything, that’s happened in Ukraine too, with former nazis being integrated in the army because they weren’t visibly doing nazi things anymore, and Ukraine desperately needed soldiers. Crises just help fascists, and Russia is going to do nothing other than strengthen the nazis both in Ukraine and in other western countries. If anything, Russia is the one pushing countries like Ukraine to become actual nazi countries, and it’s a common pattern in history - that’s how Napoleon destroyed the basis of democracy in France, he took advantage of a crisis and everyone let him be a crazy murderous dictator.
Tl,dr: if you want to attack nazis, you need to make sure that you’re actually attacking nazis, and not just destroying everything and everyone that you see. That’s the difference between the resistance in ww2, and Israel now fighting the “terrorists” by flattening out the whole country and murdering civilians. Right now, Russia is much more similar to Israel because they are just attacking indiscriminately, and that definitely pushes me to believe that the “nazi” thing is bullshit, and an excuse for oppression.
The US being wrong does not make its enemies right. I don’t think that right now, in the current way the world is, there is much of a “good side” because most countries are doing horrible shit. If you start going for the lesser evil, you accept that as the new norm and it continues worsening.
Yes, I do disagree. Because even if it were to be true, Russia is still doing things in the worst possible way. Ukraine is having nazis? Then influence their elections (which Russia loves to do) to make them shift away from it. Find economic or political leverage to pressure them. Setup rescue operations or diplomatic passage for the potential victims. But steamrolling the whole country, killing basically everyone you can on your way? I’m sorry, that’s not how it works.
If Ukraine is made of nazis, then the nazis must be taken care of, yes. But what Russia is then doing (assuming that what you’ve been saying were to be true), is the equivalent of the US dropping a bunch of nuclear bombs on a Japan at the brink of surrender, or of the winners of WWI dismantling Germany to “punish” it for its leadership, or of Israel trying to conquer and destroy all the countries around it that it doesn’t like. Or even, of all those western countries that use the excuse of counter-terrorism to consider every individual a potential threat that deserves death. It’s an oppressor move, and these cannot be supported.
A powerful country like Russia has many ways to solve any conflict or problem, and if they pick the violent, oppressive, indiscriminate way, then they are wrong.
The US being on the wrong side of every conflict is a pretty good reason to think it’s on the wrong side of this one, too. The US needs to be defeated. Besides, we can’t fight the whole world at once.
And it was already far too late to rely on influencing elections (and it’s not like Russia is uncontested - do you think the US doesn’t influence elections? ) because Ukraine was already at war with separatists in the Donbas. Russia intervened because the war was already ongoing, their options were either to invade or open the borders to refugees (and that would have caused a lot of other problems that Russia couldn’t handle). Ukraine didn’t just have neonazis. They were in the government, passing nazi policies, doing nazi things.
The equivalent would be if Mexico attacked the US for ICE putting people in concentration camps and gunning them down in the streets.
But how many countries have been on the “right side”? You can look at most western countries history and most events will be on the wrong side. Even the ones fighting the nazis during ww2 were doing it for shitty reasons half of the time. Yes, the US is shit, and generally siding with the US is a problem; that doesn’t mean that you should side with Russia. “The enemy of my enemy is my friend” is a bullshit saying that just means that you can be opportunistic to take advantage of the situation, it’s not a good moral stance.
I find it easy to say that opening the borders would be too much to handle. Rescuing people is too much to handle, but launching yourself in an endless war that causes gigantic amounts of casualties, this is doable? I call bullshit.
And once again, the problem is the proof. What you describe in Ukraine is a symptom of the decline of modern democracies, it’s a disease, not an intention. France right now is passing a law giving a right to kill to cops, after years of anti-immigration policies and nazis in various levels of the government. It’s not because the country is nazi, it’s because nazis are trying to take control of it. If you attack France right now, guess who will take advantage of the crisis and seize control of the country to “save” it? The nazis that have been hoping for an opportunity. And if anything, that’s happened in Ukraine too, with former nazis being integrated in the army because they weren’t visibly doing nazi things anymore, and Ukraine desperately needed soldiers. Crises just help fascists, and Russia is going to do nothing other than strengthen the nazis both in Ukraine and in other western countries. If anything, Russia is the one pushing countries like Ukraine to become actual nazi countries, and it’s a common pattern in history - that’s how Napoleon destroyed the basis of democracy in France, he took advantage of a crisis and everyone let him be a crazy murderous dictator.
Tl,dr: if you want to attack nazis, you need to make sure that you’re actually attacking nazis, and not just destroying everything and everyone that you see. That’s the difference between the resistance in ww2, and Israel now fighting the “terrorists” by flattening out the whole country and murdering civilians. Right now, Russia is much more similar to Israel because they are just attacking indiscriminately, and that definitely pushes me to believe that the “nazi” thing is bullshit, and an excuse for oppression.