that seems like an issue that the makers of games can decide. they are not under any gun to choose steam. if the devs don’t see value in steam then they can go elsewhere. for me as a buyer it’s steam, or it’s the developers own website. i will not buy from another store front
The only Epic Games Store games I have, I play through Heroic Launcher. In part due to lack of Linux support, but primarily because the Epic Games launcher fucking sucks.
Right, because managing, securing, updating, and operating steam is all black magic that costs valve nothing.
Listen, they need that revenue for their R&D for the steam deck 2 and steam machines and shit. Fuck off ya hoser, eh?
Listen, they need that revenue for their R&D for the steam deck 2 and steam machines and shit. Fuck off ya hoser, eh?
And also for Gabe’s fleet of billionaire yachts
How about you fuck off defending the mafioso vig that Apple, Google, and Valve have extorted from game developers for years, you monopoly bootlicker?
Nobody is forced to use any of those platforms.
You’re the one licking the boot of developers who just want to profit off of your stupidity.
Aw, those poor hardworking app stores with their razor-thin ::checks notes:: 78% profit margins
You’re a useful idiot.
Says the wanker defending billionaires’ profit margins
I’m not defending anyone.
I’m calling stupidity out for what it is.
It won’t change the fact that no one wants to use your product, Tim.
It’s not about the epic store being a success. It’s about getting fortnite on steam with little to no fees being paid to steam. Just like the lawsuit against apple.
Wait…
People still play Fortnite?
Right this minute, if Fortnite players were all on Steam it’d be the #2 most popular game there, with a 24hr peak easily hitting #1. I’m not a fan of Tim either, but the game is still massively popular.
Like gangbusters.
Well Timmy that should make it pretty easy to make a platform that both users and content producers like more. If you actually try to compete you might accomplish something.
If the majority of developers gave a shit about the difference between Valve’s 30% and EGS’s 10 or 15% cut, you’d think they’d actually be going over there. But they’re not. If anything, they put their game out everywhere. So clearly the 30% cut thing isn’t a problem. The only devs they are coaxing over to EGS over Steam are the ones they strike up exclusivity deals with, which is anti-competitive bullshit.
Sounds like a long winded way to say you don’t understand network effects or monopolies
sounds like YOU don’t know what a monopoly is
How do Tim Sweeny’s balls taste? I imagine they’re kinda sour, but I figured I might ask someone who clearly has them in their mouth.
How does it feel not grasping what it means to be an antimonopolist? I imagine it’s kind of expensive.
You’re the one defending the anti-competitive company, dumbass. So I ask again: How do Sweeny’s balls taste?
Who is defending Epic? You seem to be conflating legitimate criticism of Valve (which everyone should do) with defending the douchebag Tim Sweeney (which no one should do). But it’s a false choice to think you have to support one team or the other; both companies can be bad, and criticism of app store fees (whether Apple’s or Valve’s) has nothing to do with supporting Epic, that’s just a false equivalence.
You literally are spouting out the same nonesense Sweeny does multiple places in this post. To say you’re not defending him or his platform is a blatant lie anyone with eyeballs reading this thread can see.
Good day, sir or madam.
Let’s say Donald Trump says corporate landlords shouldn’t be able to own houses. If someone else makes the same argument, that doesn’t make them a Trump supporter. You get that, right?
If you don’t like it, you don’t have to use it. You got your own store, Timmy.
It isn’t fair that their store is vastly superior to mine and don’t pay developers to use it exclusively like we do! - little timmy wah wah boo hoo
Tim, something, something about preventing games from being released on other storefronts…
This is about micro-transactions specifically. Tim Fortnite is arguing that games sold on Steam should be able to offer in-game purchases with payment options outside of Steam.
It’s very similar to Epic Games v. Apple, where Apple had required in-app purchases for iOS apps, notably Fortnite, to be handled through their app-store so they get a cut.
One big difference that I see here: On PC, a developer isn’t required to use Steam to distribute software. Players often prefer Steam because Valve has made Steam a great option and has lots of good-will with players. Still, Steam does dominate a massive portion of the PC market.
And a 30% cut is high. Especially for smaller games with less financial resources. As a developer, that’s a trade-off you’d have to choose. I think it’d be best to offer the game on multiple platforms.
For Steam-bought games, I think having an option to pay off-platform would be fair, but I think the option needs to remain available through Steam too. For many games, I don’t want to give my payment details to yet another developer, company or third-party.
And a 30% cut is high.
Is it? It’s my understanding that it’s comparable to what brick and mortar stores would charge to have a game on their shelves.
Also, anyone who thinks EGS will keep developer fees low if they had a higher marketshare is incredibly naive.
By what definition is the 30% cut high? It’s the same percentage for Apple, Google, and Steam. Brick and mortar is generally around 50%. Amazon is a large range, but 30% is roughly average or even low. eBay charges less, but doesn’t do anything other than facilitate the transaction. Epic charges less to small developers, but that’s also mostly marketing.
It’s not about the “cut” you’re thinking; it refer to in-app purchases.
Once you bought a game, Valve keep demand a 30% cuts on anything you sell once the customer launch your executable (.exe, binary file/game engine).
hypothetical scenario to help visualize (it won’t go like that most of the time, but useful to understand the concept):
- customer Install and Launch Steam
- customer buy (Valve earn 30% cutshare) and install game on Steam
- customer uninstall Steam, keep installed game
- customer launch game (if is made in a way don’t need Steam dependencies).
- Anything sold while game engine is running must give 30%,of further earning, to Valve.
If a developer doesn’t like those terms, can’t they just remove their game from Steam or never release it there to begin with?
If a user doesn’t like those terms, they don’t have to buy the game.
Developers and users are voting with their wallets every day and the votes say Steam is worth the cost.
Still, Steam does dominate a massive portion of the PC market.
Steam revenue in 2023: USD 8.5 bn.
Overall PC gaming revenue that year: 45 bn.
Steam is big but the biggest cash cows are Fortnite, Roblox, and Minecraft. Neither is on Steam.
Also, Microsoft uses their Windows monopoly to ship the Xbox Games store to almost every PC user.
If Steam had a dominating market position, the EU would have classified it as a gate keeper under the Digital Markets Act.
Hmm, so is Tim Fortnite willing to let me purchase DLC from a third party store to go with that free game that I got on Epic?
That’s a funny way of asking people to uninstall Epic’s game launcher & boycott their games.
You don’t need to even have the launcher installed to claim the free EGS games. I usually claim them to support the developers.
Timmy, if even charging a lower fee, devs prefer steam over your shithole, I’m gonna go ahead and say that maybe there is a reason: your store sucks. Big time.
WTF is this comments section here? I don’t give a rat’s fuck (if that is a thing), about what Tim Sweeney thinks about Valve, or if Valve is a good company or not.
Charging 30% of revenue for a digital store is clearly nit justifiable and Valve makes insane amount of profits just by having a near monopoly on PC game sales. They don’t need that much and it’s still just digital feudalism regardless if who does it.
You guys are just stuck in the good guy/ bad guy mentality and honestly, it’s kind of embarrassing to get this defensive over a company.
Having a 21 year old Steam account and having bought quite some games makes it hard to stay subjective about this for me. I don’t disagree with you but I see Valve as the best monopoly if I could choose. And I don’t see Epic performing the same services while tryharding tremendously to be the monoply themselves by giving away free games.
as long as they avoid enshittification that hurts the consumer they may continue to get away with it.
I think it’s worth discussing though.
What about game devs though? They are clearly hurt already by the insane fees.
Just think about it. When you buy a game for 10€ on steam, steam get’s a flat 3.33€ just for giving you a “buy game” button. The gamedeev get’s maybe half of what you payed (Taxes, engine fees etc.).
Don’t you think, that there is something kind of fucked up about that?
That’s disingenuous. They do a lot more than that.
Discovery for one. Hosting the game so that downloads are fast and paying for the server and network infrastructure for that. Handling payment processing from all around the world.
That all has a cost. And any developer can just drop the installer on their own website and pay all of these things themselves.
it’s not really hurting the devs. if anything it hurts consumers, but even that’s a stretch considering the service both sides are getting.
holy hell can’t you see the difference between EGS and steam? one works reliably. the other is all over the place. to me that’s worth 30%
if it’s not justifiable, then the game devs can go elsewere.
That’s not how the network effect works. If Deva go elsewhere, nobody buys their game. Most people will never even know of the games outside of steam.
and why would gamers not buy their game elsewhere?
you could try answering, but conceding works just as well
The price cut is the only thing Tim cares about.
I miss old Epic games from 20 years ago. This greedy prick is an aggressive blight on PC gaming. Maybe he’ll die soon.
Losers are gonna rage.
Valve please cut epic loose.
