The time to prepare was when the Democrats were in power. It’s now too late. MAGA in 2019 could not have telegraphed their moves harder. The plan was always to massively bolster ICE and commence rapid, racist deportations and death camps. And not only did Biden and democrats fail to prepare for this (dismantling ICE, jailing MAGA, chickenshit prodecutor Garland, etc…), but they carried out the biggest federal law enforcement blunders in US history.
On top of this, Biden expanded ICE during his time in office, and literally built the camps that Tump is now utilizing.
It’s just downright pitiful to see a headline saying that “now is the time to act”, as if the people we’re begging to act didnt just spend the last 4 years collaborating with fascists.
It’s too late to avoid damage, but not too late to avoid total destruction.
I wish Lemmy had fewer doomers. I get it - horrible things are happening. Failures are taking place all over the country, and heart wrenching acts are being committed
It’s bad.
This said, things can get much, much worse. People and systems are still fighting, and both are sometimes winning. These are small battles in a larger war, but we shouldn’t discount the bravery and sacrifice that is actually getting results, however small many may be.
So no, it’s not too late to save the USA. But yes, the USA is actively failing, being divided, and breaking under the stress of the cruelty and apathy of countless millions of awful people, chief amongst them those that are currently in charge (the GOP led by Trump).
But that’s the thing… Apathy is an ingredient. Doomerism creates apathy. Fight this just as hard as you fight Trump, everyone. It’s his tool, so stop giving him strength.
Cmon bro don’t start with some “it’s too late” doomer bs. We should’ve been preparing in 2016, we should’ve prepared when Bush got elected, we should’ve prepared when prisons began to expand, when they passed the Civil Rights Act and it wasn’t nearly enough, when women couldn’t vote, etc, etc.
Obviously we can’t go back and change that, but we can take back what was stolen. We have the power now to affect the present as a reflection of the future. Like god damn the thing you should never let them take away is hope.
the thing you should never let them take away is hope
“We have to let go of our relentless positivism, our absurd mania for hope, our naive belief that with grit and determination we can solve all problems. We have to face the bleakness before us. We live in a world already heavily damaged by global warming, which will inevitably get worse. Refusal to participate in the further destruction of the planet means a rupture with traditional politics. It means noncooperation with authority. It means defying in every nonviolent way possible consumer capitalism, militarism and imperialism. It means adjusting our lifestyle, including becoming vegans, to thwart the forces bent upon our annihilation. And it means waves of sustained civil disobedience until the machine is broken.”
Chris Hedges
The hope to reclaim American “democracy” via electoral means plays into the hands of the fascists. At this point, it should be crystal clear that neither the democrats, nor electoralism, nor a blind faith in some abstract concept of “hope” will save us. Nothing will meaningfully change until the rich and powerful fear for their lives. This includes the democrat pundits who many incorrectly see as our only means of escaping the fascist backside. Everyone should be getting armed and organized.
I don’t think you understand what hope is. The Hedges quote reads like an oxymoron “there is no such thing as hope and determination / here are a bunch of solutions that rely on hope and determination.”
Like you obviously want things to change, and you just listed how to change things, yet you aren’t hopeful in them? Like do you think all the solutions you’re talking about will never work? Hope isn’t an abstract concept. To hope doesn’t mean you think “man I wish things were better, but I guess they’ll never change.” Hope is the driving force behind change. If you weren’t hopeful, you wouldn’t be calling for arms against fascism.
Oh, I have plenty of hope for socialism. What I dont have hope for is the democrats or America. And at this point, it’s downright painful to see posts like this specific OP that are still placing their bets on the democrats.
Yeah I get what you’re saying. I think that on the one hand the Democratic Party is awful. On the other hand, the democrats are by far the largest political party that has the capacity to fight the current administration. Zohran is running as a democrat, but he is starkly different than status quo democrats. I think a democratic party filled with socialist thinkers is going to be more successful (and palatable to the average citizen) than a relatively obscure socialist 3rd party. I also think that a socialist 3rd party would be ideal, but given the current timeframe it’s not going to work until it’s a critical mass w/in democrats.
democrats are by far the largest political party that has the capacity to fight the current administration
I think a democratic party filled with socialist thinkers is going to be more successful
And there’s the blind hope. It’s faith, essentially. I dont think youre picking up what I’m putting down. You’re suggesting we put our effort into a party that just cemented our fascist descent - as if you haven’t been trying that for the entirety of the last couple decades.
Dawg you seriously need to chill out. Why are you being all “gotcha, there’s that blind hope you stupid idiot.” I don’t think hope = faith. Hope can physically manifest, hope is a force. I am placing hope in the party that half of voters vote for because it is a popular party. Political parties have the capacity to change, they aren’t stagnant. A couple hundred years ago democrats were fighting for chattel slavery and republicans were seen as liberal comparatively.
I don’t like the Democratic Party, I don’t like most of its elected officials, most of its policy, but I refuse to give it up and let it become completely fascist. Because if that happens, then almost every single voter is supporting fascism.
I wish it was different (and I think it can change further down the line) but third parties don’t work in America. We need to be working to fix what we currently have.
I don’t like the Democratic Party, I don’t like most of its elected officials, most of its policy, but I refuse to give it up
And that’s just pure liberalism. The complete unwillingness to do any sort of action outside of the ballot box.
“Sure, we just careened of the cliff of fascism by having blind faith in liberal electoralism, but I still believe that liberal electoralism is the only way to proceed”
Until you obtain revolutionary politics and read Marx, youre going to be lost and confused as to why our “enlightened civil society” is going backwards at light speed.
If you are really interested in another perspective, I can provide reading.
The time to prepare was when the Democrats were in power. It’s now too late. MAGA in 2019 could not have telegraphed their moves harder. The plan was always to massively bolster ICE and commence rapid, racist deportations and death camps. And not only did Biden and democrats fail to prepare for this (dismantling ICE, jailing MAGA, chickenshit prodecutor Garland, etc…), but they carried out the biggest federal law enforcement blunders in US history.
On top of this, Biden expanded ICE during his time in office, and literally built the camps that Tump is now utilizing.
It’s just downright pitiful to see a headline saying that “now is the time to act”, as if the people we’re begging to act didnt just spend the last 4 years collaborating with fascists.
It’s too late to avoid damage, but not too late to avoid total destruction.
I wish Lemmy had fewer doomers. I get it - horrible things are happening. Failures are taking place all over the country, and heart wrenching acts are being committed
It’s bad.
This said, things can get much, much worse. People and systems are still fighting, and both are sometimes winning. These are small battles in a larger war, but we shouldn’t discount the bravery and sacrifice that is actually getting results, however small many may be.
So no, it’s not too late to save the USA. But yes, the USA is actively failing, being divided, and breaking under the stress of the cruelty and apathy of countless millions of awful people, chief amongst them those that are currently in charge (the GOP led by Trump).
But that’s the thing… Apathy is an ingredient. Doomerism creates apathy. Fight this just as hard as you fight Trump, everyone. It’s his tool, so stop giving him strength.
Cmon bro don’t start with some “it’s too late” doomer bs. We should’ve been preparing in 2016, we should’ve prepared when Bush got elected, we should’ve prepared when prisons began to expand, when they passed the Civil Rights Act and it wasn’t nearly enough, when women couldn’t vote, etc, etc.
Obviously we can’t go back and change that, but we can take back what was stolen. We have the power now to affect the present as a reflection of the future. Like god damn the thing you should never let them take away is hope.
Chris Hedges
The hope to reclaim American “democracy” via electoral means plays into the hands of the fascists. At this point, it should be crystal clear that neither the democrats, nor electoralism, nor a blind faith in some abstract concept of “hope” will save us. Nothing will meaningfully change until the rich and powerful fear for their lives. This includes the democrat pundits who many incorrectly see as our only means of escaping the fascist backside. Everyone should be getting armed and organized.
I don’t think you understand what hope is. The Hedges quote reads like an oxymoron “there is no such thing as hope and determination / here are a bunch of solutions that rely on hope and determination.”
Like you obviously want things to change, and you just listed how to change things, yet you aren’t hopeful in them? Like do you think all the solutions you’re talking about will never work? Hope isn’t an abstract concept. To hope doesn’t mean you think “man I wish things were better, but I guess they’ll never change.” Hope is the driving force behind change. If you weren’t hopeful, you wouldn’t be calling for arms against fascism.
Oh, I have plenty of hope for socialism. What I dont have hope for is the democrats or America. And at this point, it’s downright painful to see posts like this specific OP that are still placing their bets on the democrats.
Yeah I get what you’re saying. I think that on the one hand the Democratic Party is awful. On the other hand, the democrats are by far the largest political party that has the capacity to fight the current administration. Zohran is running as a democrat, but he is starkly different than status quo democrats. I think a democratic party filled with socialist thinkers is going to be more successful (and palatable to the average citizen) than a relatively obscure socialist 3rd party. I also think that a socialist 3rd party would be ideal, but given the current timeframe it’s not going to work until it’s a critical mass w/in democrats.
And there’s the blind hope. It’s faith, essentially. I dont think youre picking up what I’m putting down. You’re suggesting we put our effort into a party that just cemented our fascist descent - as if you haven’t been trying that for the entirety of the last couple decades.
Dawg you seriously need to chill out. Why are you being all “gotcha, there’s that blind hope you stupid idiot.” I don’t think hope = faith. Hope can physically manifest, hope is a force. I am placing hope in the party that half of voters vote for because it is a popular party. Political parties have the capacity to change, they aren’t stagnant. A couple hundred years ago democrats were fighting for chattel slavery and republicans were seen as liberal comparatively.
I don’t like the Democratic Party, I don’t like most of its elected officials, most of its policy, but I refuse to give it up and let it become completely fascist. Because if that happens, then almost every single voter is supporting fascism.
I wish it was different (and I think it can change further down the line) but third parties don’t work in America. We need to be working to fix what we currently have.
And that’s just pure liberalism. The complete unwillingness to do any sort of action outside of the ballot box.
“Sure, we just careened of the cliff of fascism by having blind faith in liberal electoralism, but I still believe that liberal electoralism is the only way to proceed”
Until you obtain revolutionary politics and read Marx, youre going to be lost and confused as to why our “enlightened civil society” is going backwards at light speed.
If you are really interested in another perspective, I can provide reading.
May as well off yourself or go into the streets and start shooting if that is your mentality and you think it’s too late to do anything.